Subject:Loop format preferences...

Posted by: Jessariah

Date:5/26/2002 8:50:22 PM

I've noticed various libraries (both SF and 3rd party) vary in the form the loops are delivered. Do stereo loops turn you off necessarily? Do you prefer mono loops for any reason other than file size? Also, I've noticed differences in loop levels. Do you like them super hot, or a bit quieter/more dynamic?

Just wondering.

KH

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:5/28/2002 1:34:38 AM

0db is perfect level. mono gets exported as stereo anyway in acid so it doesn't matter. my main concern is cleanliness. digital distortion is no good for me.

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:5/28/2002 11:17:34 AM

Well, I only use my own loops, but I'll comment on file format in general. A loop should be as hot as possible relative to peak value in order to contain as much audio information as possible. A file recorded with a peak at -10dB scaled to 0dB can not be as accurate as a file that is recorded with a peak at 0dB. Of course, recording at 0dB without clipping could be extremely difficult. If you need further explanation on that, try to find a detailed source explaining what is actually in a wave file.

A file only needs to be recorded as stereo if the source is in stereo. If you are recording a mono source such as a vocal track or guitar with no stereo FX in the chain, recording in stereo can only preserve pan information while taking twice the space of a mono file. Record it in mono and pan it as you want it in the mix. If the source is in stereo (such as possibly a group of singers or a stereo patch on a keyboard) then it should be recorded in stereo. It's that simple. Use what you need.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:5/28/2002 11:39:49 AM

TeeCee,

Kinda of curious as to what tools/methods you use to create your own loops? I am getting into self loop creation with Soundforge 6.0 on a project involving a ton of audio CD tracks converted to wav. I am then applying tempo/beat/selection techniques to each file set.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:5/28/2002 12:06:20 PM

CuzinB:
I'm hard core. I pull the audio into Sound Forge, visually and audibly pick my loop points and make my wave files. If I'm pulling multiple sections out of the same file, I'll attempt to set the tempo with the first loop and pay attention to the loop length in beats for the rest of the loops, but if my eyes and ears tell me that somehow the tempo has varied slightly, I trust my eyes and especially my ears.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:5/28/2002 12:32:59 PM

TeeCee,

Cool. I tried the eyes n' ears method but I found that some of my clips were flanging a bit when I put them in Acid, so I use the Edit Tempo dialog to surgically get the loop points perfect and then use the Selection length for other loops in the series. I took a long look at some of the Sonic Foundry loops and noticed that all the file lengths were identical within certain groove families. As soon as I got the selection length thing down, my loops started sounding better/tighter.

I wish I could figure out how to copy/save/reapply a selection length in Forge so I don't have to keep typing in the length values.

Appreciate the tips.

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:5/28/2002 1:44:41 PM

Normalizing the file is one thing, but to put on mastering compression to really send it to the ceiling is another. I tend to stay away from compressing original loops too much for two reasons: 1) It cuts down on the dynamics of the clip, and 2) If people throw a lot of track compression on something that's already been squeezed through Wave Hammer or a similar mastering compressor, it can really start to sound squashed.

I really like to keep as much as possible in stereo. I figure anyone who's really into this has some kind of editor whre they could convert a loop to mono if they wanted, but once you've thrown out the "true" stereo, you can never get it back.

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: ATP

Date:5/28/2002 3:52:15 PM

i take stereo samples of everything. it can always be converted to mono later, if neccesary. of course it depends on the sample and on the way you want to use it in your composition.

as for normalizing, i usually don't do that per sample. i find with low volume samples it's better to turn up the volume of the track in ACID than to pre-normalize it in SF and then use it in ACID. sometimes when you normalize a sample it tends to lose its dynamics, especially with soft, barely audible stuff.

look at it this way, you normalize the sample in SF, use it in ACID, where another volume adjustment is made, and then you master the whole song with yet another software package, applying additional EQing, compression and dynamics to the song.
i'd rather have the original sample tampered with as little as possible to leave the specific dynamics intact.

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:5/29/2002 1:58:45 PM

don't forget about headroom. there isn't much in the digital realm. so for compressing loops and that, i get all parts arranged in acid first and then i export them as groups (kicks, snares, bass, keys, synths, etc) into wavelab. thats where i alter the audio with fx like compression and gates.

acid is cool because i can open the parts in wavelab directly from acid and when i've finished in wavelab, the new versions auto load themselves back into acid. if you get concerned about undo-ing the fx, be sure to copy the original track and effect only the copy.

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:5/30/2002 11:44:18 PM

Cuzin B:
Pre-fixed loop lengths only work with consistent BPMs. At that point you can use a calculator to determine the desired loop length. When I tear into a song or something to work on a remix, the BPMs are odd numbers with decimals sometimes and the loops I'm pulling vary from a beat or so to over 128 measures. Eyes and ears are the only option for me.

I just looked this up for you. I had read it somewhere but never used it. Make a region defining your loop, select the region and pull the data on to the Sound Forge desktop to make a new sound. Press shift, click on either of the white region tabs, drag the tab to move both region tabs, locked in length. There is also a menu option to lock the region length without using the shift key. You can search the help file for lock.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: Loop format preferences...

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:5/31/2002 7:15:45 AM

TeeCee,

Thanks for the tips...sounds like something I can use.

Cheers,

Cuzin B