Subject:Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Posted by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 6:32:43 PM

This forum hasn't been very helpful today. I've been posting since 11AM this morning with not one reply from anyone!! I'm posting both of my questions for the day below. Can I PLEASE get a reply from someone!!!!

First Problem: I use an Event EZBus Interface and I'm getting tons of clicks, pops, and lock ups when using ASIO EZBus driver (latest version) in Acid 4.0. My computer is a Asus P4B motherboard / P4 1.8G / 786 Ram / Windows XP system. It works like a charm with Cubase SX. Anyone having success with Event EZBus ASIO Driver in Acid 4.0? If not, SOFO (Peter, Ted, etc), any solution?

Second Problem: I have the input and output midi routing down with the outboard synths that I'm using, but I have a "monitoring" question. I have an outboard midi keyboard/module and a stand alone synth module. In the midi section of the preference page, I have my keyboard synth available on midi input 1 on the midi input port column and also available on the midi output 1 on the midi track playback column. I have my other synth module available on midi output 2 on the midi track playback column with its midi thru set from midi input 1 so I can trigger it from my keyboard. I have no problem recording midi notes into a midi track and have no problem getting either synth to playback using the device selection button on the midi track. However, when it comes to "monitoring", is the only way to audition a synth in record mode (where you can pick what synth to route the midi input to)? There is no way (that I can find) to seperate which module gets the midi input signal in normal playback mode unless I'm recording or I physically de-select one in the midi section of the preference page. As the configuration is set now, both synths play. Any help anyone?

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: buffalosnout

Date:8/21/2002 6:51:08 PM

Merlyn: All I can offer is that the ASIO driver for my soundcard (EMI 2/6) distorts. From reading earlier posts, I think there are some general problems with many of the ASIO-driven devices. If you select the Classic Driver, your noise problem will probably go away.

James

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 7:05:54 PM

Thanks for the reply buffalosnout. I Classic Driver works fine, but the VST midi lag is dreadful with it. Any ideas about the first part of my post?

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: buffalosnout

Date:8/21/2002 7:36:51 PM

I may not clearly understand your problem, but here is my best shot:

Do you have only one physical MIDI port? In other words, are your two MIDI devices daisy-chained? If that's the case, they'll both receive the same MIDI information from ACID. To get the two synths independent, you'll need a MIDI interface with two separate ports.

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:08:48 PM

What type of external synths are you using?

What you typically need to do in cases where one MIDI input stream is feeding multiple external sources is to set up one external box to listen on one MIDI channel and the other on another channel. Assuming your MIDI controller can send on multiple channels, then it is just a matter of setting the keyboards output channel (or on fancier keyboards the "zones" to specific MIDI channels.)

Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 8:11:03 PM

No.....there are two seperate midi ports. Let me see if I can explain a little better. In the preference midi page, My keyboard/sound module is available as midi input one. The keyboard is also connected to midi output 1 so it can play back the recorded midi data. My other module is connected to midi output 2. In the midi thru column, the module is receiving input from midi input 1 (the keyboard). Now, in record mode, you have the option of routing the midi input to either midi output 1 or 2. In playback, you have the option to route the recorded midi data to either midi output 1 or 2. However, if your not recording and you just want to "audition" sounds from only one of the sound modules, there is no way to do it unless you go into the preference midi page and de-select the midi input for one. Understand? After playing with the SOFO VSTi, you can "solo" listen to a midi input port. There is no way to do this (as far as I can see) for outboard synths. Any suggestions?

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 8:16:46 PM

Peter,
Thanks for getting back. What you are suggesting only works on playback of midi data. What I'm asking is how would I do this when "auditioning" (not recording or playing back, but seeing what fits). You can do this with the VSTi's by "solo listen to midi input". How would I do this for outboard gear without A) Turning volume down on one module or B)Going into preferences and de-selecting a midi input or thru? Get it?

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 8:18:43 PM

Peter, while i have your attention....any idea about my Event ASIO EZbus driver? I;ve been seeing that there have been other problems with ASIO drivers from other companies. Any plans to address the Event ASIO driver?

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:22:54 PM

Correct, there is no solo for external ports. Problem was, where to "hang it" on the UI.

In general, external gear is "out of our control". The reality of this is that the keyboard and external synths are the controlling entities here. You need to set up your keyboard and sound module to share the 16 MIDI channels in some way so as to prevent both from listening to the same channels.

What I typically do is
- have the keyboard listen to its OWN keyboard and on channel 1
- have the keyboard listen to external MIDI on channels 2-4
- Have my first sound box (sampler)listen on channel 5-7
- have my second sound box (Yamaha XG box) listen on channel 8-9
- drum machine listen on channel 10
etc, etc

I also have my master keyboard set up to switch to a two zone layout, so that I have essentially two keyboards. One zone is sending on channel 1-8 and the other is set up to send on 9-16. It is easy for me to set the channel on the fly based upon what I want to hear. VSTis have added to my complexity a bit, but I just have to keep things consistent. (Of course many VSTis are only capable of "OMNI" mode and don't let you tell it which channels to listen on. This can be a problem.)

I also use a Unitor 8 and two MOTU MIDI Time Piece's to control my routings and channel mappings so I don't have to depend on software thrus all the much. I understand though that this is not an option for every one.

Peter





Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:36:48 PM

>>What you are suggesting only works on playback of midi data.
Why? This is how I set up my keyboard and external gear to listen to MIDI stream all the time.

>What I'm asking is how would I do this when "auditioning" (not recording or playing back, but seeing what fits). You can do this with the VSTi's by "solo listen to midi input". How would I do this for outboard gear without A) Turning volume down on one module or B)Going into preferences and de-selecting a midi input or thru? Get it?
<<
I know exactly what you are saying.

Typically an external keyboard will send MIDI on a single channel. With a zone-able keyboard, you can send on multiple channels. By setting up your keyboards "sound module" and your other external sound box to listen to only specific channels you can effectively solve this.

This is the only current solution I can offer you. It is a workable solution that is based on how MIDI works. Unless you are working with multiple GM sound sets/all in one boxes, this is a solid way to work.

There is no means (UI) to solo external MIDI thrus. We literally had no where to hang this on the UI. There is no "graphical" representation of external MIDI ports in ACID.

Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 8:52:11 PM

Peter, after re-reading your post and seeing that you basically said to "daisy chain" the outboard gear together, I understand what your saying (I missed the all on one midi port part). Any hope af a solution in Acid coming up (ie a place to hang this on the UI)? Hope so. Thanks again!

Merlyn

P.S. Event ASIO EZbus Driver?

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:57:57 PM

We don't have an Event EZBus in house, so I don't think it has been QA'd against.

Q: What is your latency/buffer setting set for with the EZBus?

Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 9:39:39 PM

Event EZbus doesn't really work like a standard audio card. Its a simple digital mixer that acts as an audio interface with you computer through a USB connection. I have been using the EZbus ASIO Driver with Cubase SX and have had zero problems. The playback buffer setting in Acid 4.0 is set to "auto". Playback buffering is greyd out. Here is an excerpt from the Event FAQ that address latency:

Q:Can I expect lower latency with EZ Bus than I get with my PCI-based audio interface?

A:With respect to monitoring while recording, the EZbus will provide virtually instantaneous "monitor through." In other words, you will be able to record new tracks in sync with those already recorded and playing from your sequencer, and you can use the on-board EQ and dynamics processing in realtime while recording (and, of course, during playback). However, latencies in a computer audio system are a function of getting audio off of a hard drive, into and out of the audio application, then back out to the audio device. These computer/software latencies are not controlled by the EZbus. The EZbus will not introduce additional latencies of its own.

The web addy is http://www.event1.com

Hope you can look into it!

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 9:59:01 PM

Ok, since the way the EZBus refers to this, I will call it buffering vs latency. What Event is refering to is input monitoring latency, which is not what I am interested in finding out.

There is always a buffer setting for ASIO drivers - well not always, but typically. This tell the host the size of the audio buffers it sends back and forth between the audio hardware. Typicall settings are:

128, 256, 512, 1024

these are all in samples.

In ACID,

-Select Options | Preferences...
- Select the Audio Tab
- Assuming that your "Audio device type" selected is the EZBus ASIO driver, click the Advanced button.
- You will see the Advanced Audio Configuration dialog box show up. It should indicate the current buffer settings for the EZBus. What is the time in ms and number of samples reported?

- Click on the "Configure" button in this dialog. If the EZBus supports this, you will be presented with a some form of UI to configure the hardware/driver settings. Typically this is where you set the driver/hardware buffering. If the EZBus permits you to change the buffering, try to increase this value and see if the problems you are experiancing go away.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 10:10:52 PM

Ok Peter. In Acid 4.0 Preference Audio page, with the ASIO EZbus Driver selected and the advanced properties window open, the buffer setting is 1ms (64 samples). When I click configure, the EZ Bus config dialog box opens and I can choose from high, medium, or low latency. There is no differnce with the performance on the high, medium, or low setting. It still pops, glitches and locks.

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 10:13:46 PM

1 ms/64 samples is very low! Too low for ACID. I can imagine ACID clicks and pops at this setting. (It doesn't explain the lock ups.)

What are the settings reported by ACID on these medium/high settings.

All I can say is we will try to obtain an EZBus from Event and see if we can find out what is happening.

Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/21/2002 10:30:24 PM

Settings are still 1ms/64 samples on high, medium or low latency setting. Thanks for the attentiveness regarding my dilemmas. I would appreciate an update as you find out more, when you consult with Event on the matter. Thanks again!

Merlyn

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/22/2002 8:08:05 AM

>>Settings are still 1ms/64 samples on high, medium or low latency setting.

Really?

After you change the settings, hit the refresh button. Some ASIO drivers do not notify the host immediately on change of the buffer sizes.

Peter

Subject:RE: Can I get answer from SOMEBODY (SOFO, Ted, Peter)?

Reply by: merlyn60

Date:8/25/2002 11:02:01 AM

Still no change after I refresh.

Merlyn