Subject:Merging MIDI data for VSTi automation

Posted by: nlamartina

Date:9/2/2002 5:09:23 PM

Okay, I've been having a blast using VSTi's and automating their parameters in Acid, but I wanted to know if there's a means to streamline what I'm doing. I begin by recording the note data for the soft synth in a track. Poof, new track in timeline, great. Next I record another track as the automation data, still patching the input through to the VSTi. Poof, new track in timeline, still great. So here's where we are: two tracks for the same instrument, both routed to the same VSTi, different data types. What I want to know is if anyone's figured out an easy way to merge data like this into a single track (track on the timeline, as in a single file). Copying and pasting list data is out of the question, and I can't very well cut and paste automation data via piano roll either, since it works exclusively with note data. I don't really care too much about track counts because I can certainly afford it, but if there's a way to make better use of my screen economy and create better organization by merging MIDI tracks, I'd like to hear it. Even if there were a really small, easy-to-use, third-party program for such a purpose, I'd dig it. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Nick LaMartina

Subject:RE: Merging MIDI data for VSTi automation

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/2/2002 8:49:25 PM

I'd say solo the MIDI tracks and bounce them down via CTRL+M on your keyboard with the Loop Region set over the amount you want to bounce, but that will automatically turn your MIDI into digital audio (leaving your original MIDI tracks unaffected). However, any and all effects (including automated) will be rendered to the new track.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Merging MIDI data for VSTi automation

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:9/2/2002 9:03:51 PM

That sorta helps, Iacobus, but not really since then I lose the ability to control/edit the MIDI data, which essentially is a step backward into co-application-alt-tab land. I’d rather have two tracks with control than one without. =) Now if there were a way to bounce MIDI tracks to new MIDI tracks, that'd be perfect, but sadly that's not the case. I recently figured out though that I could copy the note data from the first track using the piano roll editor, and then paste it in the automation track using the same method. A bit crude, but it should work. If anyone has any other ideas though, I'm still interested in hearing them.

Thanks,
Nick

Subject:RE: Merging MIDI data for VSTi automation

Reply by: waynegee

Date:9/3/2002 12:48:08 AM

woah...what's this about recording automation tracks?!?!?! I thought you just drew them in with envelopes and the pencil tool. You can record automation?!?!? Howyoudoodat?

Subject:For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:9/3/2002 2:33:59 AM

Well, yeah Wayne. Didn't you get the memo? =)

Seriously though, it's entirely possible to record automation tracks, so long as you're editing MIDI data (meaning that unless your DX plugin supports automation via MIDI parameters, e.g. Ohm Force Fromage, you're stuck editing only VSTi parameters). With my setup, I'm using a Midiman Oxygen 8 controller with Triangle 1 (there are lots others I use, but we'll keep this simple). Here's how this goes (if you don't have an Oxygen 8, the overall procedure is basically the same for any controller):

1. Start new project.

2. Hit "Ctrl+R" to bring up the recording dialogue.

3. For the MIDI device, select "Out Keystation USB"

4. For the through device, select "Triangle 1" (with real-time and ASIO enabled of course).

5. Start recording, and pound out the notes for, say, a bassline. Use a really thick patch so we can automate a good filter for the intro.

6. Stop recording. The new track will appear. It should still be assigned to the Triangle VSTi.

7. Now before you start automating, you need to first set the knobs on the Oxygen 8 to correspond to the CC (Control Change) ports on the Triangle. Like all synths, Modulation is assigned to CC 1 (the modulation wheel on the Oxy), and Volume is assigned to CC 7 (which by default corresponds to the Data Entry slider). We'll leave knob 1 on the Oxy alone, since that often functions as a pan pot with other synths.

Now on the Triangle 1, we have the following assignments available to us:

Filter Cutoff: CC 74
Filter Reso: CC 71
Bass Boost: CC 70

There are others, but this is what we'll work with for now. So in this step, assign knob 2 on the Oxy controller to CC 74, knob 3 to CC 71, and knob 4 to CC 70. Your controller is now ready to automate the Triangle.

8. Now put the cursor back at the beginning of your project.

9. Again, hit "Ctrl+R" to bring up the recording dialogue.

10. As before, set the MIDI input as "Out Keystation USB" and the thru as "Triangle 1".

11. Hit record. Now the Triangle synth will begin playing as normal, the same stuff you did earlier, but this time, fiddle with the knobs on the Oxy instead of hitting keys. Start knob 2 all the way to the left and gradually turn it to the right to let the highs peek through the filter. Adjust the slider to create a fade, or just adjust the volume. Twirl knob 4 for some serious bass. Finish, and hit stop.

12. A new track will appear, but you won't see any graphic data in the file, since you didn't hit any notes. All you recorded was a load of CC messages. Now as long as that file is present in the timeline, and as long as it's patched through to the VSTi, the parameters will all automate perfectly each time the project is played back or rendered.

There you go. That should do it. Let me know if you need me to clarify any of this stuff. I'm sure you'll find this beats doing everything by hand graphically. Not only that, but you'll have way more control over how your synths sound, making your compositions more organic and rich. One tip is to go into the list editor and set beginning parameters for your automation track to “prep” the knobs and sliders. This way, if a synth parameter is left on a certain value after playback, it will “snap” back home at the beginning of the project.

Let me know if you'd like another tutorial on how to automate the Fromage DX plugin with a similar process.

Regards,
Nick

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: ibliss

Date:9/3/2002 7:22:29 AM

Here's a way to bounce MIDI data internally in Acid (and probably other apps, too):

1) Install Sonic Foundry's Virtual MIDI router.
2) Go to the Acid MIDI prefs and enable a VMR port in the In and Out device list (must be same port number ie Out 1 and In 1)
3) On the tracks you want to bounce down, choose the VMR out port as the device that you want to send the MIDI to.
4) Go into record ready mode; choose MIDI and select the VMR In port as the recording source.
5) Hit record and wait for the song to play through.
6) A new track will be created with the combined MIDI data.

NOTE: you won't hear the synths playing, because their MIDI data is goin to the virtual port instead. If you really need to hear them, duplicate the MIDI tracks you are bouncing then route one to the synth and one to the VMR.

Hubis loopback or MIDI Yoke should work to - I've only tried it with SoFo Virtual MIDI Router.
If you don't want to install any virtual MIDI drivers on your system, you do have the option of sending the MIDI out of the PC and back in using what ever MIDI hardware you have (or even just a lead going straight from the Out to In port - but be careful of creating a feedback loop!)

Mike K

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: waynegee

Date:9/3/2002 8:26:14 AM

you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: SonyNateM

Date:9/3/2002 11:42:28 AM

Personally, I find it easiest to leave my tracks containing recorded automation information separate from my "note" tracks. This way I can easily copy and paste my controller info to different portions of the song or offset it to get the timing and sound that I desire.

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: ibliss

Date:9/3/2002 12:40:05 PM

That definitely makes sense....merging the automation would probably be the last thing you'd do when the project is pretty much finished. But for those of us out there who aren't keyboard trained, it's useful to be able to merge (for example) left and right hand parts into one track.

Mike K

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:9/3/2002 3:51:35 PM

I'm with Nate. That's how I've always worked with Cakewalk and SONAR (why is that name all caps?). You can edit just the controller data or just the notes. You can move the automation aaround, copy it to another location. It's like bouncing audio, I only do it if I have to (when I had to in earlier programs) and I make sure that the audio is as good as can be first. But I never have to do it anymore.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: ATP

Date:9/9/2002 4:11:20 PM

Nick,

thx for your tut on automation. if i understand correctly, you're using an external midi controller for your automation. how would this work with control knobs inside VST instruments?

for example, i just recorded some stuff using Native Instruments Pro52. then i tried to make another record and fiddle with the knobs present on the VSTi. but ACID wouldn't let me change any of the values.

however, if i change the pitch bend on my midi keyboard this data gets recorded.

so, if i understand correctly, i have to find some way to link a knob on the VSTi to the pitch bend on my midi keyboard (i have a cheapo yamaha keyboard, intended for stand-alone use). or is there an 'internal' way of changing the parameters on the VSTi itself?

ATP

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: SonyNateM

Date:9/9/2002 4:47:33 PM

Well, generally speaking, the values of the knobs/faders/settings on VST instruments are bound to specific MIDI control changes. For example, Portamento conrol is generally control change number 65. Most external MIDI controllers have either knobs or a modulation wheel that can be assigned a specific CC number to send. If you are recording and routing to your soft synth as your MIDI through while turning the knob, or moving the mod wheel, the VST instrument will respond accordingly.

If you have troubles figuring out which CC number to use for which setting in a VST instrument, check it's documentation, often there is a table listing all of them.

HTH,
Nate

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: ATP

Date:9/10/2002 7:01:57 AM

i understand. but this will also mean that if i want to automate, i'll need an external midi controller. i guess it's time to get rid of the cheapo keyboard and get a real midi controller.

any tips on which ones are any good?

thanks.
ATP

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/10/2002 7:39:14 AM

With out making an official recommendation, the MIDIMan Oxygen is very cool. Not much of a keyboard for playing, but it has 8 knobs that can be assigned to send any MIDI CC msg.

Peter

Subject:RE: For Wayne: How - To on VSTi automation

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:9/10/2002 11:33:46 AM

Peter did you read this month's Electronic Musician? There's an undocumented feature that lets you access 32 more vitual knobs by pressing MIDI/Select and then hitting the Octave/Preset buttons to page through five banks of knob presets. Pretty slick.

It's on sale at Musician's Friend right now for $140. If you throw in a nice Yamaha pedal and one other goodie you'll be able to qualify for free shipping.

And before anyone says anything, no I don't work for Musician's Friend. Just tryin' to help people save cash.

HTH,
Nick