Subject:How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Posted by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 12:19:39 PM

It extracts, fine. But I have tried adjusting the levels and no go. I tried adjusting in Windows - nada. Even reset the graphic equalizer in SF to -10db. Nada. I tried going into the record system on SF and adjusting there. Nada.

This is the primary reason our station purchased SF, but at this point the extractor is set so hot it's clipping through virtually everything.

Subject:RE: How do you extract line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/14/2003 12:39:24 PM

Are you extracting digital audio or recording CD playback in real time?
If you are performing digital audio extraction (DAE), the data extracted is exactly what is on the disc. Your sound card settings are not part of this process.
If you are playing back the CD and recording in Forge in real time, you would adjust the RECORD Properties (not Playback) for the Input you are using, in your case I assume Line In?
If you are playing back audio and it is too loud, adjust the Wave Out Playback level.

Subject:RE: How do you extract line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: Sonic

Date:2/14/2003 12:39:53 PM

Digital extraction is not a recording, it is digital extraction. There are no gain stages or other level adjustments. What you rip is what was on the CD.

If you are hearing clipping, check your sound card settings and connections.

J.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 12:56:37 PM

I'm extracting. And I have already re-set my Windows volume levels to rock-bottom - by rights they should be muted. This isn't a single CD or cut, it's across the board.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 12:58:06 PM

Thanks for the info. This is the primary reason we purchase SF. We already had a DAE and it worked fine. You've just told me we spent hundreds of dollars on something that won't do what it purports to do.

Subject:RE: How do you extract line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: MyST

Date:2/14/2003 1:06:37 PM

Call tech support and explain your situation exactly. At least that's what I would do before saying my product was useless just because people on the forum couldn't come up with a fix.


M

Subject:RE: How do you extract line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 1:10:54 PM

On the phone with Tech Support now and it doesn't look good.

Subject:RE: How do you extract line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: Sonic

Date:2/14/2003 2:20:28 PM

Can you expand a little on what exactly you think it "purports to do"? What task are you trying to accomplish, precisely?

J.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 3:51:50 PM

We are trying to move our music library to hard disk. We are talking about literally THOUSANDS of songs, an entire radio station's worth. (About four thousand active at last count.) Can we record real-time? Yes. It will take God knows how long, but we can do it. We wanted the option of extraction, in hopes of saving time. But that ain't gonna happen, at least not with this program.

On top of everything else, I have been fighting with Windows so much trying to adjust the CD/ROM levels that now it won't even detect the real-time audio to record. I am using two programs to accomplish what theoretically Sound Forge should do in one. Instead of extracting from the CD, I am recording into another program, editing out the inevitable real-time silence, saving in .wav format, and transferring to SF to convert to mp3. I had a freeware mp3 converter I could have used and saved the bucks, plus the other editor interacts directly with our broadcast software.

So needless to say, nobody at our studios has very nice things to say about SF at the moment. I realized that my original title was wrong - I was so tired of fighting with this thing that I wasn't thinking straight.

I even tried going into the hardware settings and adjusting the actual CD/ROM volume, but noooooo.... Still no good.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:2/14/2003 4:15:19 PM

Just to make sure, you're going to File / Extract Audio from CD, correct? I just tried this and extracted a 7:45 song in under 40 seconds. When you extract, there is no level manipulation at all; you end up with a .wav file that has exactly the contents of the audio track from the CD. This process cannot introduce clipping or distortion. If the file you get shows clipping then the recording on the CD contained clipping.

It is possible that the process is trying to go faster than your CD-ROM drive is capable of. There is a setting you can adjust for this. Under Options / Preferences / CD Settings, slide the Extract Optimization slider to the right one notch and try again. Usually the problem this optimization causes is gaps and skips though, not distortion.

As far as adjusting the input selection and levels for real-time recording, double-click on the little speaker icon in the task tray, choose Options / Properties / Recording. This is where you select the input you wish to use and the volume level. Nothing you change here can affect extraction at all; this only adjusts recording level for real-time recording.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/14/2003 4:20:47 PM

Yes, I am doing File / Extract Audio from CD. I talked with my boss and he essentially told me that the Deejay copies are recorded hotter. But the end result is the same. And I have already gone through and changed the record defaults in windows, tried selecting line in, CD, microphone, none of them cooperate any more. Can I scream now? I realize it's not the fault of anyone here, but this is about fifty times harder than it should be. This is a frigging audio editing system, not brain surgery. I have used umpteen editors before and have never gone through this much grief to accomplish what should be a simple task.

EDIT: I got the Windows files cooperating and we're getting another program to do the CD extracts, one that's designed specifically for that. The SF will either be used to dub our older music or it will sit on the shelf collecting dust.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: drbam

Date:2/14/2003 8:24:00 PM

Interesting. . . I've never had any problems with the extraction function in SF or Vegas.The tracks are extracted to a wav file that is an exact copy of what's on the CD.

drbam

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: LeiLani

Date:2/18/2003 4:03:15 PM

That's exactly the point. We finally got ahold of CDX (the music distributor) and they said the studio copies are intentionally hotter. Since extraction copies, rather than recording, it's not possible to extract. We're going to have to manually record. Only now I'm getting an error message that says my sound card doesn't support one or more parameters to record to SF.

But after fighting all morning with BSI over another program, I'm feeling better about Sound Forge. It can't do the extraction, granted, but at least it DOES do the other things it's supposed to do!

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:2/18/2003 4:35:37 PM

One last little effort here ... do the studio CDs you're using sound clipped and distorted when you listen to them? They shouldn't be. If they're not, then the extraction that SoundForge does won't be clipped or distorted either. If the CDs are clipped and distorted then the extraction also will be. This is also true if you are recording ... if the original CD clips, then the analog recording will clip and distort too, just with the clipped peaks at a lower overall level.

Perhaps the problem is that the playback from SoundForge is so loud that it's distorting the sound card's output even though the file itself isn't clipped. Try extracting, then reducing the volume, then playing it back. While you have an extracted file on the screen, zoom in to 1:1 or even closer and look at the peaks. If they look flattened then the original CD clipped. If not, then the file isn't clipped.

Subject:RE: How do you adjust line-in levels on CD extraction?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/18/2003 9:15:05 PM

>I'm feeling better about Sound Forge. It can't do the
> extraction, granted, but at least it DOES do the other
>things it's supposed to do!

LeiLani - Sound Forge *CAN* do the extaction. The process of extraction from CD involves *NO* level setting and doesn't go anywhere near the soundcard mixer applet - it is an exact copy of the data (levels and frequencies) that are on the CDs. What you are seeing is what is on the CD. No more, no less.

If you are seeing low levels, or high levels, or clipping - that is what is on the CD !!! There are no level controls that you can adjust that will change this (Sound Forge or any other extraction software).

If you've used 'so many editors' you should know that, and that something 'recorded hotter' cannot end up 'the same'. What is probably the case is that the DJ mixes have been compressed to buggery, by incompetent 'engineers' and the result is distortion and clipped waveforms.

The other possibility is that your CD-(ROM?) drive is faulty, but I doubt it.

geoff