Subject:Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Posted by: vinylman

Date:7/11/2003 4:27:55 AM

Hello!

I am using Sound Forge 6.0.

I was wondering if there is any way to make the peaks in a WAV form relatively flat. I've noticed that digitally ripped WAVs from a CD tend to be flat. In contrast, WAVS encoded from an analog source (vinyl for example) can have high peaks and low valleys.

Applying the Equalizer to this latter, "uneven" WAV is not practical because my EQ "tweaking" might sound great for one part of the song (with a low peak for example), and not as good for another part (with a high peak, as it may clip and distort). Normalizing doesn't seem to correct this uneven WAV problem.

How do I get the low, high, and mid frequencies in a WAV to be relatively in balance, before I equalize it? For some reason, I am thinking the term related to what I want to do is "frequency response," but I'm not sure. Any help that can be offered is genuinely appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/11/2003 5:27:56 AM

You want to compress the recording. Use Effects / Dynamics / Graphic. This will let you set a threshold volume above which the peaks are "squashed". After this you can Process / Normalize to bring the entire recording back up to full volume.

If you'd rather have a more automatic process instead of tweaking lots of parameters, try Effects / WaveHammer instead.

Keep in mind though that many modern recordings (most of which are on CD) have had most of the dynamics squashed out of them so that they seem louder. Many older recordings (most of which are on Vinyl) weren't compressed as much so that they had a fuller and richer dynamic range. These recordings may sound rather dull and lifeless if they are compressed. Having a large variation between the high peaks and quiet valleys can be a good thing!

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: vinylman

Date:7/11/2003 4:09:29 PM

Thank you for the response. It was an excellent answer. I wouldn't have thought of "Dynamics/Graphic" on my own.

I have used the Wavehammer tool. It's excellent. I understand your argument regarding keeping the peaks in. I might do that after all. Now, it's time to have some fun and do some experiments!

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: vinylman

Date:7/11/2003 4:28:14 PM

I hope I'm not getting greedy here, but I have one remaining question. I now understand how to sort out volume issues, but does Sound Forge 6.0 have a "frequency analysis" feature? That is, something that will analyse my WAV and tell me graphically how much bass vs. treble vs mid frequencies are in that WAV, relative to one another?

I tried doing a search on frequency analysis, and there was nothing in the help files. I wonder if they call it something else. When I did a search on the web, I found a program that has this feature called CoolEdit. Sound Forge is a lot more expensive than Cool Edit, so I'm assuming SF must have this feature too.

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: vinylman

Date:7/11/2003 4:33:54 PM

Oh sorry, Chienworks. It's "spectrum analysis." I just read one of your posts on the topic. You say there are accuracy problems with it.

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/11/2003 6:23:07 PM

It looks like the accuracy may have been fixed in version 6. Under version 5 one could render a sine wave at a constant frequency, check it with spectrum analysis, and the indicated peak frequency would be off by 5 to 15 cycles. I just tried it in 6 and it's spot-on.

In any case, if you're just looking for a balance of bass vs. treble, you don't need much accuracy at all. Frequencies toward the left are bass, toward the right are treble, and in the middle is midrange.

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/12/2003 7:14:12 AM

Vinylman,

Just for the sake of clarity, it's not the top of signal peaks you want flat (that's just distortion), it's the shape of the overall waveform envelope. Achieved by compression or with limtier/compressor plugins such as Waves L1 , L2 etc. Essential for some styles of music, but when applied to all stytles all the time, tedious.

cheers

geoff

Subject:RE: Beginner Question Vinyl encoding

Reply by: vinylman

Date:7/16/2003 10:54:56 AM

Ok, thanks for the help.

I've been experimenting with recording the vinyl, and I can't believe the good results I'm getting. Compared to vinyl I've downloaded from the net, mine sounds better than or at least equal to the equivalent recording I've gotten from somebody else. And, that's with a low-end soundcard. (All my other pieces are fairly good quality).

One major mistake I was making was I had the "gain" turned up too high on my preamp. Once I brought it down, I was able to play with the EQ, and then apply the Wavehammer after. Previously, I was getting clipping during the EQ step because the gain was set too high.

I tried the dynamics graphic option, and then normalized after, and it greatly diminished the quality of the recording. Almost like when you save an MP3 at a lower bitrate.