Subject:can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Posted by: jbrooks3
Date:10/6/2003 8:04:50 PM
although sf6 supported .w64 files, it would still reach the 2GB limit of a wave file and stop recording. Has this been fixed in SF7? I want to record at 24/96 or 24/192, but unfortunately hit the filesize limit at 1 hr and 1/2 hr respectively. I hate using vegas just for this feature. is this fixed in sf7, or better yet does anybody know a workaround in sf6? |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:10/6/2003 10:44:32 PM
The limitation is not Sf's but the MS WAV specs. Your limitation sounds to be again not SF's problem, but a max filesize limitation in FAT32. NTFS volumes have unlimited filesize ... geoff |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/7/2003 10:45:21 AM
To clarify: Max record time is 2 GB on a non-NTFS partition, period. Max file size for .wav/RIFF saves is 4 GB, period. Sound Forge 6.0/7.0 looks at the partition of your *temp* directory and sets the maximum record length based on that (a little less than 2 GB for FAT32, MAXLONGLONG for NTFS). So even if you are rendering to an NTFS partition, if the temp directory resides on a FAT32 partition, Sound Forge will still bail at 2 GB. The internal temp file itself begins life as .wav, but autoconverts itself to .w64 as necessary during the record. This is how 6.0 worked, but if you are convinced otherwise, you might download the 7.0 trial and try it for yourself. J. P.S. A couple other notes that come to mind: punch-in records are limited to 2 hours, and my comments apply to Sound Forge 6.0/7.0 Pro. YMMV with Studio or a demo, I don't quite recall. Also, I assume there are no MTC tasks going on (trigger or sync settings). |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/7/2003 11:31:15 AM
ok, I am recording to a fat32 volume, but I dont understand why the 2GB limit is imposed there, when a fat32 volume allows recording up to 4 GB (I do it all the time with .w64's in vegas). I would definately call this a bug and not a feature! I guess whoever wrote the code for soundforge didnt understand that fat32 has a 4GB limit, not a 2GB limit. It would be great if this could be resolved, I hate to have to format my recording partition to ntfs, then I cant use linux on my system |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/7/2003 12:06:39 PM
Yeah, mixed the two up in typing. I see the issue now. FAT32 is indeed a 4 GB max, as is a RIFF with an unsigned 32-bit size. Since a number of legacy programs treated this as signed, Sound Forge typically imposed a 2 GB limit where either one could take effect (I suppose it made sense in pre-.w64 temp file days). It appears that the partition-based limit stuff happens to be hanging on the same pref value rather than the true 4 GB max. At any rate, you can change it if you go into the internal prefs (hold down Ctrl+Shift while selecting Options->Preferences to make the Internal tab appear). Type "data" in the search box to find the value "Data bytes before writing RIFF64". Change the value to anything under 4 GB, and you'll be able to record up to that limit on a FAT32 partition. Part legacyness, part laziness, I guess. Bummer. J. |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/7/2003 12:59:48 PM
should I also change the value of 'render large wave files as Wave64' to 'true'. I dont see any other option for this in the regular sf preferences. What effect does this have actually, it seem sto do nothing in vegas (while recording, at least) |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/7/2003 1:08:25 PM
the way I read that option, it seems that by setting it to 4gb, it will not start a wav64 until 4gb is reached . so what does that mean, it will attempt to write a 4gb wave file, or will it attempt to render it as a wave 64 upon saving? The former is obviously bad, but I wonder how the latter is handled, does it rewite the header and save it instantaneously like vegas, or will it take forever and a day to render 4GB to the same disk? |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/7/2003 1:26:24 PM
As far as recording, this one is unused. In certain rendering situations, it will flag a .wav render to be autoconverted to .w64 on the fly, which does appear in Vegas' general prefs. I haven't actually tried it in Sound Forge, but since it is hidden, I expect setting it to true is untested at best. The "Data bytes before writing RIFF64" is what is being used in the record code if it detects non-NTFS. As you've pointed out, it should just be hardcoded to 2^32-1 in this case, but the pref was used probably partially due to legacy issues, and partially to test the code with a convenient value. I will make a note to fix in 7.0b, though I'd hope most users dealing with large files have moved to NTFS to bypass partion limitiations entirely, with the exception of dual-booters such as yourself. J. |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/7/2003 2:08:02 PM
Well, it will save to whatever type you select, but the problem is that the quicksave logic gets burned. The temp file used in the record code automatically flips to .w64 if it passes that same pref value, which is why it is a bit of a bug that we used it for partition limitations. If you change that value to > 2 GB, the temp file remains .wav throughout the record. Then if you try to save as anything other than .wav (i.e. .w64), the quicksave logic will fail and it will (needlessly) render the entire file rather than just rename it. Not that you couldn't just save as a >2 GB .wav, but I get the feeling there are some other places in fileio handling that will complain. I don't have a 2-4 GB files handy, but will try that later today. So the choices so far are: 1) reset the internal pref and take your chances with >2 GB saves to .wav 2) reset the internal pref and take a coffee/lunch break when you save it to .w64 3) create/add an NTFS partition for your temp directories 4) use Vegas til 7.0b is posted 5) save long records to .raw and wait to render them to a delivery format until after editing I am rather partial to #3 as I think it is the most common scenario given 7.0's system requirements, but certainly agree that this is an issue for users who want to record > 2 GB on a FAT32 partition. J. |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/7/2003 2:27:56 PM
so are you saying with option 5, if I save it as raw, it wont re-render? |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/7/2003 3:19:09 PM
Ugh, didn't mean to keep that one. Too much brainstorming at the keyboard. Nix that. It is treated as a type change. Let me try a few things with #1. I think it will work within the confines of SF products. Stay tuned. J. |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/8/2003 11:18:59 AM
last night I formatted my drive to ntfs and recorded a 3.5 GB file. Id did kep recording and prompted to save it as a w64, but it rerendered it. I thought it was supposed to autosave? it took 23 minutes to save this file on my little laptop drive! |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: Sonic
Date:10/8/2003 5:29:39 PM
It is supposed to. But you're absolutely right. Over 2 GB it ain't. I've isolated what is causing it. Unfortunately, the interaction of two different issues makes a runtime workaround impossible. I will ensure that these items are resolved in the next update. Thanks for the scrutiny...and patience... J. |
Subject:RE: can SF7 record a file over 2GB?
Reply by: jbrooks3
Date:10/8/2003 8:14:31 PM
so I'm basically out of luck with sf6? I need to wait for sf7b and buy it? |