Comments

vonhosen wrote on 2/19/2004, 9:32 AM
.mpv is an elementary video (only) stream file extension.

DVD-A does not accept elementary streams. I don't use CCE but can it not produce a multiplexed file (video & audio) file with an .mpg extension ?
DVD-A wants a .mpg file
What you really want (if you are going to use an .ac3 audio file from Vegas) is a .mpg file with out the audio (basically a elementary video file in a multiplexed wrapper)

If you can't get it to accept your .mpv file by just changing the file extension to .mpg then I'm afraid you may have to re-encode
johnmeyer wrote on 2/19/2004, 9:53 AM
It is an "elementary stream," a fancy word for video only. For DVDA to accept it, you must "multiplex" it with some audio to create a "system stream" that DVDA can accept.

I have no idea why Sony would create a product that doesn't accept elementary streams. There is absolutely no technical reason not to allow it, and my guess is that they actually had to do work to stop DVDA from accepting these files. Every other authoring program that I know of accepts these files.

If you need to use one of these files in DVDA, you can use TMPGEnc, or a number of other programs, to multiplex with some audio. You can then delete the reference to the audio file in DVDA and use a different audio file instead.
RichMacDonald wrote on 2/19/2004, 11:22 AM
Not only that, but if you create a file with an mpg extension using the Vegas video-only preset (i.e., a video-only elementary stream named *.mpg), most other tools either (1) will not accept it or (2) perform a demux to create an mpv before they will.
ScottW wrote on 2/19/2004, 12:07 PM
Actually, you can use the MPEG tools in TMPGEnc to multiplex it with no audio stream. Just specify the video file without any audio and you'll be fine.

All DVDA is after is a program stream - no audio need apply.
fetch wrote on 2/19/2004, 2:37 PM
I thank you all for your information.
A good question John - most other DVD authoring applications accept this format.
I'm curious to know why DVD-A has been designed not to accept this extension?
Any reasons why Sony?
johnmeyer wrote on 2/19/2004, 4:25 PM
Actually, you can use the MPEG tools in TMPGEnc to multiplex it with no audio stream.

Good one, Scott. I thought I had heard somewhere that you could do this, but I wasn't sure, so I didn't say so.

Most other DVD authoring applications accept this format.

I would have asked this question myself, but Sony has already complained (about ten days ago) about me complaining about the product, so I figured I'd lay off for awhile and not ask such impertinent questions.
kentwolf wrote on 2/19/2004, 6:53 PM
>>... Sony has already complained (about ten days ago) about me
>>complaining about the product...

Where? :)

I looked but couldn't find it.

Thanks!
johnmeyer wrote on 2/23/2004, 12:22 PM
kentwolf,

... Sony has already complained (about ten days ago) about me complaining about the product...

Click here:

Thanks for your opinion

The first line says it all. Pretty frosty. I took the hint, and have backed off. I do think, however, that a few people there may be suffering a bit from the old "business would be great if it weren't for the damned customers" syndrome.
RBartlett wrote on 2/24/2004, 12:28 AM
I believe the choice to go program-stream only was justified by the extra reference timing that you get with a program-stream. However if you encode with CCE and re-encapsulate with TMPGEnc tools, then you probably haven't made Sony's justification valid! DVD-A could do the same processing as it compiled - right?

I'd figure that the single-VTS (current operating) mode and the recommendation to import your entire assets as a single MPEG-video.mpg is _actually_ why the timing works quite well. Also the sync to the audio, as long as it is dimensionally corresponding to the MPEG-video.mpg length.

A couple of hoop jumps (unless encoding from the Vegas timeline) and the results are still good. I'm sure Sony have failed to convert some customers over from the competition on some of these quirks. Perhaps they feel more honourable when their authoring tool is slightly more locked to their NLE.

I don't even think about elementary stream support in my workflow anymore. To me, it wasn't a big step to change my thinking.
farss wrote on 2/24/2004, 5:13 AM
Actually this is yet another major oversight in this product. Elemental streams are the industry standard, without support for what is produced by the industry standard applications DVDA will to be considered a consummer product only. This limitation has held me back on more than one occasion.

I'd also again mention that contrary to its published specs it is not compliant with even the UDF standard. If DVDA has to split video over more than one VOB file you'll discover that you cannot copy the 1GB VOB files back to a windows directory as the DVD does not meet UDF specs. This has been complained about by myslef and many others on numerous occassions.

Sony's stock answer to both of these issues is to accuse the complainant of trying to engage in piracy, somehow that doesn't quite ring true, I was under the obviously misguided impression that works produced for a client using original material shot by the client were his property. Perhaps we are seeing the dawn of a new copyright regime by Sony, anything produced using a Sony product is the property of Sony.
johnmeyer wrote on 2/24/2004, 9:38 AM
farss,

You are absolutely correct. I hope Sony is listening.
Steve672 wrote on 2/24/2004, 8:30 PM
johnmeyer

I read your posts here and in the video forum. I have also read your reference to a previous post wrt to Sony. I found your input valuable and I would not be put off by Sony, though point well taken.

Would be nice for Sony to be more vocal in these forums but in a more constructive/helpful way.

Steve
johnmeyer wrote on 2/24/2004, 8:49 PM
Steve,

I wasn't put off. I was actually trying to be somewhat obnoxious, on purpose, to see if I could engage a live person on the other end. I was not trying to get them to reveal future product plans, but rather I was trying to get them to show a more caring attitude and start helping customers work through various problems.

Obviously there are some really great people in this forum that provide plenty of support, but that doesn't relieve the vendor -- Sony -- from the responsibility of engaging their customers.

When I used to run software companies, I considered user groups (which is essentially the nature of this forum) to be my church, and I felt it my duty to attend services regularly.

Companies that don't instill that attitude in their employees always fail.

I dearly love Vegas and Sound Forge, and still hold out hope for DVDA, but Sony's comparative silence in these forums is not a good harbinger of things to come.
Steve672 wrote on 2/25/2004, 5:47 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Steve
RichMacDonald wrote on 2/25/2004, 10:17 AM
>I dearly love Vegas and Sound Forge, and still hold out hope for DVDA, but Sony's comparative silence in these forums is not a good harbinger of things to come.

Things have certainly changed in the last year. While for the sake of Sonic's people I supported the premature release of DVDA (to boost their market value before selling themselves off to Sony), something changed thereafter. In all the forums. The "engineers are too busy working on the next release to respond to the forum" card can only be played for so long, then it backfires. It leaves a void that is filled with FUD, e.g., "did the engineers quit or were laid off", "did the new marketeers change the plan", and all that nonsense. One can come up with a lot of theories and most of them are negative. And the longer the silence, the worse it gets and the less likely the "tearful reunion when all is finally forgiven" will actually play out.

When you fail to provide at least a simple bug fix, feature improvement, release in due course, the pressure builds for the next release to be something "big". And when you realize you're coming up short, you delay a little longer...and the pressure builds a little more...and human nature causes you to avoid your users because you don't have good things to say. I've been there.

Well that's my contribution to the FUD. All I can say is that I'm spending a lot of time looking around for a satisfactory DVD tool. Failing, I might add, so all is not lost for Sonic.