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Subject:24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Posted by: vanblah
Date:3/4/2004 8:25:36 AM
This is a cross-over post concerning both Vegas 4 and Sound Forge 7. I recorded a 24-bit/44.1 file in Vegas 4.0. Vegas tells me that my soundcard doesn't support 24-bit (which is untrue). However, since I had already set up routing BEFORE I changed properties to 24-bit, I was able to record anyway. Does that make sense? The track was recorded fine and played back fine in Vegas. In Sound Forge 7.0 however I get a high-pitched squeal and hiss. Ned Beatty was not in the room with me at the time. I have just updated all of my Sony Software to the latest release. Drivers for sound card and video card are all up to date. No plugins were used on the file. Specs: Asus P4P800 MB (Intel 865PE chipset) GeForce 5200 graphics adapter (dual head) P4 2.4 (400Mhz; no overclocking) 1GB RAM Aardvark Direct Pro Q10 using ASIO (2) 40GB 7200 WD hard drives (system and storage) (2) 18GB 15000 Seagate U160 SCSI Drives (mirrored; recording and playback) Adaptec 19160 SCSI Adapter (PCI) Anyone else see/hear this problem? I'm also submitting this to tech support after I get home today. Doug |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: rraud
Date:3/5/2004 6:25:32 PM
*Un-install and re-install the latest Aardvark soundcard driver; (from their website) ... and of course: Squeal-like-a-pig .. LOL |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: seakn
Date:3/7/2004 9:48:11 AM
Hey.. I just got my SF7 and have had the same problem. It occured when I exported a 24bit 96hx file out of Cubase and when I played it in an old version of wavelab it played fine, but in SF7 it was just noise. I have the Q10 sound card as well, and I'm pretty sure I have the most current dirvers. Did you get this solved? If so please let me know what you had to do. regards. seakn |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/8/2004 12:21:11 AM
Do you happen to have Sound Forge v6.0? It says on their site that it works with "Sonic Foundry" apps. If it doesn't you can call them a liar :-). Actually, I went over to their site and looked at the specs on this card. It looks pretty impressive, if you don't understand them. They give a THD+N of .0005%. This is incredible, until you look and see that measurement is taken only with a 1Khz signal. Most manufacturers take a THD+N measurement with a full hearing spectrum audio signal (ie 20-20Khz). Thus, this tells me this is a hyped spec and you know the quality is good if you're only recording a 1Khz sinewave. They also forget to mention the output power level at which this measurement was taken, which plays a big part in a THD+N measurement. Just a few technicalities, but tells me they're not too honest of a company. |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: Sonic
Date:3/8/2004 6:37:48 AM
I don't have the card, but you might try flipping the Options->Preferences->Wave->"Try unpacked 24-bit format first" pref and/or bumping up the buffer sizes just above it. J. |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: vanblah
Date:3/8/2004 3:39:30 PM
Hey red, are you talking about Aardvark? I've used them for several years and like them quite a bit. I know that they're a lot more well-known for their sync-ing devices ... of course, that doesn't mean their soundcards are going to be all that great. But so far I do like the sound I'm getting with the Q10. As for advertising hype ... unfortunately, you're right. It applies to almost every single company in the United States. Then again, companies aren't going to tell you what their products don't do ... it would be great if they would move in that direction though: Sony Sound Forge: Great for tweaking sound; not so great at removing vocals!! McDonalds: You'll love our food; you'll hate what we do to your cholesterol. It would be refreshing ... Doug PS - I got an email from Sony Tech Support that suggests turning off the "Try unpacket 24 bit format first" option as reflected in an earlier post in this thread ... I'll let everyone know if that works for me. |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/8/2004 4:58:47 PM
Yeah, I was referring too Aardvark. I have nothing personal against their products, and have no idea if it's any good or not, since I've never owned one. I'm an engineer for an audio company where it is company policy to not hype published specifications. So I can point out rather easily when I see a specification that is hyped, and it makes me look down upon that company, because obviously it shows they're trying to hide something, and inturn makes me wonder if you can trust the rest of the published specifications. Sure it says it supports 24bit/96Khz, but how do you know for sure? Sound Forge is telling you it's not, and the hyped literature is telling you it is, so which do you trust now? It's like those guys trying to sell you a 800Watt set of speakers out of a moving van. "These are 800 Watt speakers", but then if you look at the small print, "800Watts, Peak-to-Peak-to-Peak at 1Khz, with a duration of 1 nano second impulse." |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: vanblah
Date:3/10/2004 6:27:40 PM
OK. None of the turning on/off the "Try unpacked 24-bt etc." seems to work. Whether the box is checked or not I get the static. Buffer sizes don't seem to matter either. The question is ... why is the file able to play back in Vegas but not Sound Forge? I will contact Aardvark tomorrow ... we'll see what they have to say. Doug |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: seakn
Date:3/12/2004 4:18:09 PM
When I flipped the "try unpacked 24 bit..." switch things worked out fine. Happy now, S |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/13/2004 11:20:08 AM
vanblah: I'm having the same exact problem as you with SF 7.0. My (much more meager) specs: PIII 800EB MHz (Intel 815EP chipset); not overclocked ASUS CUSL2-C motherboard M-Audio Audiophile 2496 (using latest supported drivers) 384 MB PC133 SDRAM 80 GB 7200 RPM Maxtor UltraATA 100 drive (system); configured as primary master 120 GB 7200 RPM Western Digital UltraATA 133 (media); configured as secondary master ATI Radeon 32 MB DDR video card (AGP) The Audiophile has an IRQ of its own (IRQ 3); I've tried doing the PCI card merry-go-round but that doesn't help either. If I try the "try unpacked 24-bit" option while recording or playing back, I get the static-like squeal but the file is fine in ACID Pro 4.0. If I uncheck the option, the recording ends up as static junk in either app. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: vanblah
Date:3/14/2004 8:39:39 AM
The latest from Aardvark is that this is a known issue with Sound Forge 7.0 (but not earlier versions) and the Q10. They are apparently working with Sony to find out what changed between the versions so that they can get the issue resolved. I don't know about the M-Audio card. Doug |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/14/2004 9:11:09 AM
I've tried contacting M-Audio before on this issue, but apparently they're giving me the brush-off, as I'm having another issue with MIDI. (It's not like I was being rude.) They must think there aren't any competitors; I'm seriously considering not going with another M-Audio soundcard ever again. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/15/2004 9:07:22 AM
You should read and make some comments on this thread in the Vegas audio forum. http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=259484&Replies=33&Page=1 |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:3/15/2004 9:59:12 AM
Thanks for that heads up, Brian. I definitely know I'm not alone on this one and this proves it further. (A few people that own or used to own an Audiophile are complaining about its MIDI over at DigiTech's forum.) Wow, never thought I'd hear somebody from Sony actually comment on a product, which I can understand since it looks like they're playing favorites—M-Audio has already started that one however, since it looks like they're up Ableton's a$$ all the time. (I also remember Peter commenting on how sloppily-written M-Audio's drivers are.) I think my biggest mistake was telling M-Audio I was using Sony apps; maybe if I told them I was using Ableton's Live, things would probably be better. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal (Update)
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/15/2004 3:14:34 PM
Yep, there's a bunch of posts in the Vegas audio forums that seem to be related to using M-audio cards. I'm happy that I have Echo cards. A lot of users seem to be upset with the lack of support from M-audio. I can't speak from personal experience, alls I can say is that Echo's support is great. I've always have gotten a response back in a day or two, and things have been running smoothly for me for years with 4 different versions of Sound Forge and 5 different versions of Vegas. http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=260352&Replies=1&Page=1 http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=177085&Replies=15&Page=1 |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: vanblah
Date:4/5/2004 10:00:26 AM
Finally an answer from Aardvark concerning the THD+N specs on the Q10: Quote: I received confirmation that 1kHz is where the THD+N is at it’s highest. The THD decreases the further the frequency is from 1kHz, be it lower or higher. I do not have specific readings for other frequencies, but .002 is the highest amount that should occur at any frequency. Also, the Vegas 24-bit problem has been resolved. I have to set the ASIO sample size at the soundcard level. There is still an issue with SoundForge 7 but not earlier versions. Doug |
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Subject:RE: 24-bit (non-Deliverance Soundtrack) squeal
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:4/5/2004 10:37:11 AM
Good to hear they gave you a response. .002% is drastically different from their published .0005% THD+N. So how come they didn't publish .002 instead of .0005? Also, again they didn't tell you the output power rating they used. They are also lying about the 1Khz fact, or whoever gave you that information really doesn't know what they're talking about. 1Khz is in the middle of the audio spectrum, and in most audio products you will find that this will give the optimal performance, where the hardware will have more difficulties reproducing the extreme low frequencies and the extreme high frequencies. Thus, when you look at a frequency response curve you wil not see a complete flat line, but may roll-off near the low-frequencies. So, what will happen is that is that these frequencies will get distorted at higher input levels, compared to the mid-range 1Khz input signal. Thus more THN+N. |