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Subject:ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Posted by: Spheris
Date:3/17/2005 1:02:13 PM
Well, when opening an edit track out of vegas into forge, forge defaults back to the default sound device (which is the onboard audio and NOT the WAMIrack which is being used for input and edit purposes) and kicks asio out of the drop down box to select for as long as vegas is open. Vegas is asio enabled Forge is desired to be asio enabled the problem is opening a track into forge causes asio to be kicked out of options for forge if vegas is open which is not of much use Need a workaround here guys. This might be a dealbreaker if the workflow problems continue. Message last edited on3/17/2005 1:07:03 PM bySpheris. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: jaydeeee
Date:3/17/2005 1:46:25 PM
MME man. I see no reason for ASIO with forge (useless addition). Use ASIO for your virtual insts and/or ACID, MME for vegas and/or forge. Hey SF ...Please! How about you fix your AUTO REGION functionality instead? It's useless say the least (yet MUCH NEEDED in a editor such as this). 2 or 3 shareware apps kick the crap out of Sforge Auto Region. How?...by designing something that actually WORKS! You familiar with mobile media SF? You should be. How about gearing some tools to this? Starters.... - Fix auto region - batch process the appending of silence to mass source files (or appending a .wav to multiple .wavs)? - adding format support for todays mobile media Message last edited on3/17/2005 1:53:20 PM byjaydeeee. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: mpd
Date:3/17/2005 3:14:42 PM
What exactly doesn't work for you with auto region? Just saying that "2 or 3 shareware apps kick the crap out of Sforge Auto Region." isn't much help. I don't use auto region much, but when I have it worked well. The key, just with any other of the tools, is to know how to use the options, and to make sure you input is good. Also, have you played with scripting for adding silence / handles to the audio files? |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/17/2005 6:14:27 PM
Good lord, hijacked for mobile phone requests...use the suggestions and requests form. Sonic, if you're checking - give me a workaround, thanks. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/17/2005 7:34:40 PM
>>I see no reason for ASIO with forge (useless addition). Actually there is a good reason: With WDM base drivers, MME in Windows is emulated and runs through the KMixer. The KMixer can hijack your audio stream and not actually work at the level with the hardware that you have requested it to. It can insert a SRC. The KMixer can also pull the rug out from under your driver and change the hardwares sample rate and bit depth to be what it "thinks" is the best common setting for use by all available apps that need audio output. I also always adds a -6dB pad to the output. Why? So that your "web" experiance will be really good and to prevent speaker overload if you happen to have multiple apps/windows trying to stream audio to the sound card at the same time. The only time Windows will keep its hands off of your audio stream is if your hardware has native or true Wave MME drivers. Most drivers today are WDM based. ASIO is by design a direct path to the hardware. You tell the ASIO driver to open at 48/24 and that is what you get. No dB change, no SRC, just the audio the host app sends to it. Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 5:45:44 AM
Peter, Glad you could make time to debate the pro and con of whether or not ASIO should be there. Now how about a workaround or some insight into the problem at hand? |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/18/2005 5:47:58 AM
We are looking into it. Please add your system specs to your profile (That goes for everybody on these forums!!!! Why, because it lets us know what we are dealing with out having to ask "what kind of sound card, what kind of video card, etc,etc. Helps us to help you.) Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 6:15:41 AM
It's in there now. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Sonic
Date:3/18/2005 8:01:12 AM
We'll see what can be done from the Forge side in 8.0a. I haven't tried this yet, but one thing you can try right now is to launch Sound Forge before Vegas and keep it open, rather than let Vegas launch it. J. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/18/2005 8:05:41 AM
Not seeing it. Did you enable it to be shown in your profile? Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Nat
Date:3/18/2005 8:48:15 AM
I also have the wamirack and the ASIO driver is not multiclient so I guess the behaviour is normal. You cannot use 2 asio apps at the same time unless one of them releases the driver when it's not on focus. The next ESI drivers will allow multiclient ASIO. Please see this link for more info : http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM05/Content/ESI/PR/EWDM-Driver-Update.html Message last edited on3/18/2005 8:53:31 AM byNat. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Sonic
Date:3/18/2005 8:59:10 AM
Vegas does release the driver on loss of focus (controlled by a pref). Forge always does this (unless the device is still in use). The described behavior occurs because when you launch Sound Forge from Vegas, Vegas doesn't actually lose focus (or release the driver) until Sound Forge has already gone looking for it during initializiation. Hence, my previous suggestion (well, actually Peter's suggestion) to try launching Forge first and just keep it open to work around this. Multi-client ASIO will solve this, but has its own set of problems. J. Message last edited on3/18/2005 8:59:53 AM bySonic. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Nat
Date:3/18/2005 9:14:18 AM
Out of curiosity, could you explain the problems a Multi client asio setup might have ? |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 9:57:19 AM
Have I mentioned there's too many pages to lip through in the new forum. Found the switch to turn on display. Sorry about that Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 9:59:10 AM
Much thanks gentlemen, selected the pref and testing it now. Will give feedback shortly |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Sonic
Date:3/18/2005 10:36:40 AM
I'll preface by saying I'm no expert on the gory details of ASIO, so I should just shut up. But since you asked, it seems to me that you'd end up re-creating the problems the kmixer introduces in WDM. That is, if you have multiple clients trying to talk to the same hardware, you either have to satisfy them all with a mixer layer of some sort (potentially introducing further latency, SRC, gain stages, etc.), or you have to deny access, which defeats the purpose. But if they get it to work, more power to 'em. J. Message last edited on3/18/2005 10:38:47 AM bySonic. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 12:53:40 PM
Report: even with the release enabled, the driver still fails to be available in forge on open from vegas. Tried opening forge first, same reverse happened in vegas |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Nat
Date:3/18/2005 1:04:05 PM
Thanks Sonic ! I think each vendor as a different implementation. usually they clearly state that each app must be set to the same sampling rate and each app has to use different outputs and inputs. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/18/2005 6:56:46 PM
>>same reverse happened in vegas What does this mean? Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/18/2005 11:25:22 PM
Peter, I tried the reverse procedure to having forge opened first then opening vegas and well, it closed sound forge entirely without even an error dialogue..strange stuff |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/20/2005 5:30:56 PM
So, Forge crashes if Vegas is opened after. I am trying to get my hands on a Ego Sys card - WAMI or otherwise. From my tests, this appears to be unique to the EgoSys hardware/drivers. That is, I cannot reproduce any problems as you describe with any other hardware/ASIO. I have a feeling that the WAMI ASIO drivers are very unfriendly as far as sharing goes, but until I can get hardware I wont know for sure. Q: Do you have any other ASIO friendly host apps available to you? Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/21/2005 7:36:23 AM
Only sonar 4.0, but since it's not really in use haven't thought to test it against it. You want me to do a run through and spot check? |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/22/2005 5:57:58 AM
Yes. Set up SONAR to use the ASIO EgoSys drivers. (You will have to restart SONAR after you make this change of course). Make sure you check "Share Drivers With Other Programs" in SONAR's Advanced Audio Options page. Start SONAR. Turn on SONAR's Audio Engine. Start Forge. Can Forge see and use the Ego Sys hardware? Now try the reverse: Start Forge. Make sure it is set to use the Ego Sys hardware Start SONAR. Anything interesting happen? Thanks, Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:3/22/2005 7:06:19 PM
It sure would be nice if the Windows kmixer, actually had a UI to it. I mean you open up two apps sharing the same outputs, and up pops two faders on the kmixer for each apps input signal, defaulted to the current functionality of the kmixer. If you set those fader to 0dB, you obviously hear distortion, because you're going over 0dB because of the mixed signal being combined into the single output of your sound card output. You pull each down to -6dB. If you're switching between apps and playing sounds independantly, let those faders stay at 0dB. Send Microsoft my suggestion along with a picture of the Vegas GUI, see if we can get them working on that. Unless there's a way to for someone to develop their own kmixer kernel, which overwrites the Windows one. Message last edited on3/22/2005 7:08:38 PM byRednroll. |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/24/2005 9:39:49 AM
Tried it peter, worse results - black screen reboot Contacted Ego-sys about it, they said hang tight - multi-client asio is inbound |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:3/25/2005 5:15:48 PM
That is what I experianced as well. From what I can tell, the EgoSys drivers are not just single client, but completely refuse connection/interrogation if they are even instances in another host. This means that a host must never even hang on to a non-active instance of the driver. Very strick of EgoSys to develope drivers like this. Nothing illegal about it, but this is the first time I have seen this. Most other drivers just say - hey, I am busy and can't be used. Others do even better and permit unused ports to be accessed by different hosts. I look forward to the new drivers. Peter |
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Subject:RE: ASIO trouble - probably expected but...
Reply by: Spheris
Date:3/25/2005 7:41:48 PM
The way it was explained is that the streams are driver isolated in order to support their directwire interfaces..which are pretty impressive for internal routing and probably better than anything like it out there right now - used to be the only real method for wiring gigastudio to anything using cubase/sonar/etc I've been an ego-sys enthusiast for years and this is the first niggle I've run into so it's not the end. But having your hands on one - you can probably see why I do appreciate them as I do. |