OT: winners

boomhower wrote on 6/29/2005, 3:30 PM
I went back and didn't see a post on this....if I missed it sorry.....

Congratulations to the VASST audio contest winners. I'm a bit red in the face to say I've been so busy it sorta slipped my mind until today so I cruised over to see who won. Good stuff. Also thanks to VASST for pitting us one against the other in friendly competition.

Keith

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/29/2005, 9:28 PM
We're always open to new contest ideas....let er' rip! We'd considered an HDV contest, but that's not really fair to the guys that don't have HDV cams yet... And I'm glad to hear you enjoy the contests.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/29/2005, 11:21 PM
What about a gen media contest?

maybe make a 15 second commercial - using only Vegas gen media and compositing - could really push the creative envelope and be available to everyone.

You could provide the nar, or the subject matter could be up to us - there could also be a provided number of graphics or pictures etc.. that we could have provided to us.

Just a thought - but it could really produce some good stuff

Dave
dand9959 wrote on 6/30/2005, 7:17 AM
At some point in the past, I proposed a contest for Top Ten Countdowns, ala' David Letterman. This would end up being similar to a gen media contest, I think.
Steve Mann wrote on 6/30/2005, 8:18 PM
I like the contests, but the judging isn't fair.

Early entries get more votes, so a later entry would have to be fantastic, not just better, to catch up to the early entries. Those of us who have to work for a living may take a few more days to plan a contest project.

Judging should begin when all entries are posted, eliminating the unfair early entry advantage.

Steve Mann
fldave wrote on 6/30/2005, 9:08 PM
That sounds fair to me. Close the contest for entry, then allow voting.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 6/30/2005, 10:03 PM
I'd have to concur - close the entering - open the the voting.

Dave
krhodes wrote on 7/1/2005, 8:05 AM
"I like the contests, but the judging isn't fair. "

Both the winners in the audio contest were "late" entries, so I owuld have to say your reasoning is in-correct.....

also, you can change your vote at anytime - so if you vote for a entry at the begining, then something better comes up, change your vote!
Luxo wrote on 7/1/2005, 4:40 PM
I don't see how anyone can reasonably disagree with this logic. Whenever there is a VASST contest, I have always been first to chime in and suggest they keep voting closed until all entries are in. The usual response is that people don't come back and vote, meaning if they waited for the contest to end, they couldn't convince people to return and case their vote.

To me, this is exactly why the current rules are unfair. If no one would return when the contest is over, why would they return to watch later (hypothetically better) entries, and re-cast their vote? It clearly favors early entries, and is unfair to entries made near the deadline.

The day you submit your piece should not be a factor in the number of votes you get, period.

Tortoises take their time, have SO much more time to gather ideas and work and re-work the project, fine-tuning it down to the frame level. Hares speed to the finish line, confident they have a great idea, yet enjoying only a fraction of the time to prepare.

So what happens to the hare that begins work near the deadline? Does she get as many votes as the hare that submits first? No. Everyone has equal time to work on the project, and there should be no benefit to submitting early.

Both the winners in the audio contest were "late" entries, so I owuld have to say your reasoning is in-correct.....

Even if it worked out this last time (I didn't follow the contest), and you think the same two winners would have been chosen either way, do you really contest that holding off votes until all entries are in is the fairest approach? I really think that defies logic.
Spot|DSE wrote on 7/1/2005, 5:52 PM
All the feedback is appreciated, and noted. Keep in mind that the last 2 contests have had both early and late entries as winners, so it really defies much of the opinions here. However, we'reopen to hearing ideas for rules, contests, prizes, whatever you'd like. We're trying to keep the site as much about what the community wants, not what we think it should be. All feedback, always, is taken into account, not to mention the much appreciated scripts, tutorials, veg files, etc that folks keep submitting for your enjoyment.
We'll likely run the next contest as requested here, as a trial balloon if nothing else. We just gotta figure out what the next contest is going to be about.
Luxo wrote on 7/1/2005, 9:39 PM
I'm happy that you're likely to run the next contest with proper voting rules. You've said this before, but I would love to see it happen for real.

I don't think the fact that there have been late entries defies our logic. The point is not that early entries are guaranteed victory, it's just that they have an advantage, and it discourages people from entering later. I mean if we're discussing a competition, rules are an important factor. People want fair play. While it's possible that the "best man wins" under your rules, the held voting method comes much closer to guaranteeing it.

Can you imagine if people were allowed to vote for a Presidential election before all nominees had been named? If you could cast your vote at Sundance before seeing all the films? If you could vote for Carrie Underwood before Bo Bice sings?

I know you're trying to be hands off, but I (for one) avoid VASST contests because there is no order. And as for the issue of people not returning to vote, if you hold votes until the end, I don't think that will be an issue with a decent (2-week?) voting period and a couple reminders in the forums.

Sorry for bantering on. It's just I feel like I'm being told the Earth is flat. Bring on the revised rules, and I'm in.
Spot|DSE wrote on 7/1/2005, 10:05 PM
I'm happy that you're likely to run the next contest with proper voting rules.

"Proper rules" according to whom? The contests are what they are, and they're supposed to be fun. So far, they have been. It concerns me that you're saying that I promised something that I didn't. I've said we'll take comments under advisement and implement changes where feasible. If you heard otherwise, my apologies. I'm not the only one with a vote on how we do things on the site. We're building out the new website, and if it's not a big deal to allow voting to run as folks here (and only here) have asked, then we'll do it.
I haven't a clue who Carrie Underwood or Bo Bice are, but to the point, this isn't the presidential election. Unlike the presidential election, you can change your vote at the last minute, and have as many opportunities as you'd like to change your vote.

FWIW, in this last contest, we allowed voting for 10 days after the contest ended. We had 2 people griping that they didn't have enough time to get their entry in, (30 days) and then wanted to know why they couldn't get a vote when we modified the rules for them.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Luxo wrote on 7/1/2005, 11:28 PM
"Proper rules" according to whom?

Yes, me, clearly.

It concerns me that you're saying that I promised something that I didn't.

I was just referring to your post I referrenced above, where you said, "Our next contest, coming up for Christmas, we'll maybe try again, and see if it works now that there is a much larger Vegas community." I didn't mean to say you'd promised anything, just that you suggested you might try this voting method, as you again said today.

I haven't a clue who Carrie Underwood or Bo Bice are, but to the point, this isn't the presidential election. Unlike the presidential election, you can change your vote at the last minute, and have as many opportunities as you'd like to change your vote.

Carrie and Bo were American Idol contestants, and respect to you for not knowing them. I was just being cute, but it serves my point -- voting isn't allowed until the end of the show. My film festival point still holds. And as for presidential election, are you suggesting the public would be okay if people were allowed to vote at any time, as long as they could retract and vote again before Super Tuesday?

Look, I know this is just a little competition held in a niche corner on the Internet. It's just for fun. But you usually have some damn fine prizes at stake (cheers!). It's important to be as fair as possible. The point is this: the fact that everyone can return and re-cast their vote doesn't mean they will, and this is unfair to people who enter toward the deadline. The best solution is to revise the rules, so that all voters at least have the opportunity to watch all entries before casting a ballot.
krhodes wrote on 7/2/2005, 9:52 AM
regardless of how voting is done in the past or the future - I appreciate VASST and the willingness they have to take the time to do contests and draw attention to vegas and the A/V community

Thanks for the time and effort everyone puts in from VASST