Subject:SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Posted by: Larry Clifford

Date:8/23/2007 8:41:43 AM

I just migrated from 9.0b to 9.0c. I attempted this sequence this morning:

1. Copy cssette tape to audio CD-RW.

2. Convert audio CD-RW to intermediate MP3 using Windows Media Player 10. The duration was 10 minutes (example). It contained three talks.

3. Open the intermediate MP3 file with SF 9.0c.

4. Delete the 1st and 2nd talks and kept the 3rd. Saved the 3rd. The duration is still 10 minutes on the output file even though it is less that 2 minutes.

5. Reopen the intermediate MP3 file with SF.

6. Delete the 1st and 3rd talks and kept the 2nd talk. Saved the 2nd. The duration is still 10 minutes on the output file even thought it is approximately 6 minutes.

7. Reopen the intermediate MP3 file with SF.

8. Delete the 2nd and 3rd talks and kept the 1st talk. Saved the 1st. The duration is still 10 minutes on the output file even thought it is approximately 2 minutes.

I now have three talks with a total of 30 minutes (10 minutes each). The actual total is 10 minutes (2 + 6 + 2). They play correctly on Windows Media Player 10, but show as 10 minutes each.

This worked correctly on Sound Forge Audio Studio 8.0b. I am not sure about SF 9.0b.

Is anyone else having a problem with this?
Any suggestions?

I am using so many steps to create the intrmediate MP3 file because by cassette recorder that is connected to my sound card is in the repair shop.

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:8/25/2007 6:16:28 AM

Just a thought - but I think you could work more effeciently.

1) Fine enough/

2) SF9 - extract audio from CD

3) Select region 1, cut, and paste to new track, and save as track1
(format as mp3 if you desire)
4) Select region 2, cut, and paste to new track, and save as track2

5)Save remainder as track 3

OR

1) Fine enough

2) Extract audio from CD.

3) Insert regions for sections 1,2,3

4) Tools - extract regions..



As for having the same problems - sorry, but no - it works as it should for me, following your steps.

HTH

Ken

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:8/26/2007 1:54:32 PM

I couldn't reproduce the time thang (with shorter segments and your process).

But also, all these intermedia files as MP3s - you should keep them all as WAV until the final conversion, as they degrade further each time edited and re-saved.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: Larry Clifford

Date:9/1/2007 3:36:11 AM

I appreciate your responses.

I was not aware of the continuous degrading of MP3 files.

I did some more experimentation.

I have an MP3 file. When I hold the cursor over the filename in Windows explorer, it says the duration is 48:50.

SF 9.0c says it is 41:28.

I delete part of the file in SF by highlighting some of the end, press the Del key, and save it as mp3.

Windows explorer says it is 48:50. SF says it is 39:27. Windows Media Player 10 says it is 48:50.

I then saved the same short file is SF as WAV.

SF says it is 39:27. Windows Media Player 10 says it is 39:27.

If I continue to delete segments off the end of the file and save it as a WAV file, the duration is correctly updated.

The only thing that has changed is SF 9.0c.

Would someone from Sony please test and reply here?

All of my recently created files have an incorrect duration.

What is my recourse?

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:9/1/2007 5:02:54 PM

Out of sheer interest - try this.

When going through save-as - swap your setting for "save meta data with file" (bottom of pop-up window checkbox). ie - if you have it selected, unselect it or vice versa.

As for mp3 degrading audio data - yes - it's definitely true - saving to an uncompressed format (or lossless) is always a good idea until the last minute, and even then keeping backup as uncompressed.

If you want some "fun" save your mp3 file, then save it again without changing anything and watch the duration increment a little.. Now when I said fun, yea, erm, ok- I was kidding, but hey, it's been a long day.

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:9/1/2007 9:13:56 PM

Sound Forge is not updating the TLEN metadata tag when you are saving to MP3. I've logged this into our bug database.

TLEN is the file length in milliseconds (1 sec = 1000 msec). Many programs use this metadata value for displaying the file length.

As a workaround, *after* you've saved to MP3 you can fix the TLEN value as follows:

1. Open the MP3 file if it isn't open already
2. Set the ruler to display in seconds (right context menu when the mouse pointer is over the ruler)
3. Move the cursor to the end (Ctrl+End). The length of the file in seconds is displayed in the Selection Start box near the bottom right of the data window. Multiply this number by 1000, dropping anything after the decimal point.
4. File -> Properties, click the Summary tab, click Extended. Scroll the fields selection box down to TLEN, select TLEN, and type calculated length into the Contents box (do not include the decimal point or anything after it).
5. Click OK in Extended Summary, click OK in Summary, then File -> Save (or Ctrl+S) to update TLEN in the metadata.

T.

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: Larry Clifford

Date:9/3/2007 8:39:46 AM

I want to thank everyone for their assistance.

The option "Save meta data with file" was originally checked.

I took one of my test files and added several metadata fields using Windows Media Player. I then use SFto delete part of the file from the end and save it with the option unchecked. This suggestion was from Kennymusicman. The file retained all of my metadata and updated the duration.

I also tested fixing an existing file using the suggestion from the ForumAdmin. That also worked.

I would like to see the help instructions clarified under "Save As." I got the impression that if the option was unchecked no metadata would be saved. It appears to be just the opposite.

Could someone form Sony give me an idea if the TLEN problem will be fixed in 9.0d? Can you hint (no commitment) when 9.0d will be available?

If this will not be fixed in 9.0d, do you know what release this will be fixed in?

Again, thank you.

Subject:RE: SF 9.0c - Duration Metadata - MP3

Reply by: GenJerDan

Date:9/16/2007 5:09:22 AM

I'll try that.

But...another file, saved the same way (with metadata), was correct.

Weirdness.