Subject:Songs with unsteady beats

Posted by: alisharifpour

Date:5/5/2000 5:20:00 PM

Hi to all,

I am working on some projects which use songs recorded in
the 60's/70's, and were not recorded using a metronome or
other steady beat; so the beats are not exactly the same
speed throughout the song.

I am having difficulty syncing up the songs in Acid, due to
their changing tempos. It seems to make sense if there was
a way one could tell acid about the beats, so that they
could be aligned automatically, it would be easier to
acidize files, especially old songs. For example instead of
having to cut loops exactly to the measure one could instead
label the files' quarter notes.

There are other software programs which do this on a limited
level; many sequencer/recording software packages let you
specify quarter notes for example and then quantize the
audio. But, their quality is not as good as Acid, and it
seems that this functionality would be very useful in Acid.

If anyone else has had experience with songs like this, and
has any tips (either how to do work without having to cut up
the song into measures, or tips how to cut up the song
faster), I would appreciate some input. Also if you think
the functionality I am suggesting would be useful please
mention that too.

Thanks and regards

Ali

Subject:Re: Songs with unsteady beats

Reply by: ATP

Date:5/5/2000 7:56:00 PM

Hi.

I'm having exactly the same problems with these kind of samples. I've
done quite a lot of research on this matter, and to my knowledge
there is no way to work around this problem effeciently. But, it CAN
be done.

Here's what I do. Loops like these will have to be cut up in parts.
You can do this manually in Sound Forge, but that's slow business. I
use a program called Recycle, which allows you to cut your loops in
parts.
NOTE: I must say it works best on beats with no other sounds in them.
I've never really tested it on other samples before.

The good thing about Recycle is that it examines your sample and
inserts slice-marks at the most logic places in the sample. There is
no need to find that EXACT spot, Recycle will find it for you. You
can move, mute and edit the slicepoints manually, if you want. Then
you can save each slice as a new wave file.

In ACID, open the new wave files and place the beat as you want it. I
make the slices play as One Shots and set the song tempo to the
original sample tempo, that way I can avoid possible looping
problems. If all is as you want it to be save the song as a wave
file. Open this file in the song it was intended to go and voila, you
have the beat running smooth as butter ;-)

For more info on Recycle, go here:

http://www.propellerheads.se
http://www.steinberg.net/products/ps/recycle

Ok, this is still not a very easy way, but it is a way.
Good luck!
ATP

(note to the SF forum administrators: I humbly apologize for this
blatant product spammage ;-)


Ali Sharifpour wrote:
>>Hi to all,
>>
>>I am working on some projects which use songs recorded in
>>the 60's/70's, and were not recorded using a metronome or
>>other steady beat; so the beats are not exactly the same
>>speed throughout the song.
>>
>>I am having difficulty syncing up the songs in Acid, due to
>>their changing tempos. It seems to make sense if there was
>>a way one could tell acid about the beats, so that they
>>could be aligned automatically, it would be easier to
>>acidize files, especially old songs. For example instead of
>>having to cut loops exactly to the measure one could instead
>>label the files' quarter notes.
>>
>>There are other software programs which do this on a limited
>>level; many sequencer/recording software packages let you
>>specify quarter notes for example and then quantize the
>>audio. But, their quality is not as good as Acid, and it
>>seems that this functionality would be very useful in Acid.
>>
>>If anyone else has had experience with songs like this, and
>>has any tips (either how to do work without having to cut up
>>the song into measures, or tips how to cut up the song
>>faster), I would appreciate some input. Also if you think
>>the functionality I am suggesting would be useful please
>>mention that too.
>>
>>Thanks and regards
>>
>>Ali
>>

Subject:Re: Songs with unsteady beats

Reply by: alisharifpour

Date:5/6/2000 5:10:00 PM

Hi ATP,

Thanks for your tips. I already have ReCycle; the problem is it
doesn't work with stereo files. Would you agree that being able to
tell acid where beats are would be a very useful feature? Since the
software does a lot of transient detection similar to what ReCycle
does, it would make sense to be able to tell it where beats are. That
would even help it in matching tempos better and avoid having to
manually cut loops exactly at measure points.

If you agree, let's try to get this heard and considered as a feature.
It seems like a natural and very useful extension to the way acid
works.

Thanks again for your detailed and useful workaround. I will try it
soon.

Ali



ATP wrote:
>>Hi.
>>
>>I'm having exactly the same problems with these kind of samples. I've
>>done quite a lot of research on this matter, and to my knowledge
>>there is no way to work around this problem effeciently. But, it CAN
>>be done.
>>
>>Here's what I do. Loops like these will have to be cut up in parts.
>>You can do this manually in Sound Forge, but that's slow business. I
>>use a program called Recycle, which allows you to cut your loops in
>>parts.
>>NOTE: I must say it works best on beats with no other sounds in them.
>>I've never really tested it on other samples before.
>>
>>The good thing about Recycle is that it examines your sample and
>>inserts slice-marks at the most logic places in the sample. There is
>>no need to find that EXACT spot, Recycle will find it for you. You
>>can move, mute and edit the slicepoints manually, if you want. Then
>>you can save each slice as a new wave file.
>>
>>In ACID, open the new wave files and place the beat as you want it. I
>>make the slices play as One Shots and set the song tempo to the
>>original sample tempo, that way I can avoid possible looping
>>problems. If all is as you want it to be save the song as a wave
>>file. Open this file in the song it was intended to go and voila, you
>>have the beat running smooth as butter ;-)
>>
>>For more info on Recycle, go here:
>>
>>http://www.propellerheads.se
>>http://www.steinberg.net/products/ps/recycle
>>
>>Ok, this is still not a very easy way, but it is a way.
>>Good luck!
>>ATP
>>
>>(note to the SF forum administrators: I humbly apologize for this
>>blatant product spammage ;-)
>>
>>