Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion -Sound Forge - PC

Subject:Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion Posted by: Fredv Date:7/7/2008 4:42:56 PM Every so often I have to work with content that is from a CD where the producer has compressed the dickens out of it. I guess this is done to make it sound constant level on portable devices. Case in point, I was ripping a CD of some Four Tops music. I have the original 45s and LPs, but I thought I would use a CD since it should be cleaner. Imagine my surprise (shock) when I looked at the waveform and it was almost straight across. When I compare the 45 and the CD, there is almost NIL dynamic range. The best way of describing the audio is imagine playing audio through a DBX 117 or 119 in the compression mode, set to 10:1, and then limiting the final product. The best thing I have found so far to "temper" the over compression is DYNAMIC. I say temper because I know I can't restore them completely. Has anyone had to deal with this, and can you share your settings and experiences? Anything better than Dynamic to eliminate some of the compressed songs?
Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion Reply by: jumbuk Date:7/7/2008 5:17:22 PM "Anything better than Dynamic to eliminate some of the compressed songs?" - Just delete them - that will "eliminate" them nicely! More seriously, I had to deal with this when mastering a CD I produced with a partner. One of the tracks was a live recording that had been produced by a radio station, and was compressed flat. We didn't have access to the original recording (it was probably straight from the PA with compression applied anyway). I used the Waves C1 compressor with a downwards expander preset as a starting point. As you probably know, an expander is the opposite of a compressor. It did a pretty good job, bearing in mind that it is impossible to recover any dynamics that have been hard limited in the source audio. Presumably you can configure the SF graphic dynamics to do the same thing. Also, bear in mind that the expansion does have a few side-effects. It may alter the EQ balance (less bass, more highs) slightly, and it may reduce the perceived amount of reverb as well. If you can hear these effects, or any pumping, you have probably overdone it. Too much expansion will end up sounding like a noise gate. However, it's worth adding an extra stage of mastering EQ after the expansion to get the balance right again if it has changed (I use HarBal for this).
Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion Reply by: Geoff_Wood Date:7/7/2008 8:33:25 PM You are, of course, referring to the envelope - not the waveform. That would tend to indicate the bass is highly compressed, but does not mean that the overall dynamic range, or dynamic range of all frequencies, is nil. Yes, a disappointign trend that now seems to be the norm. Re-master = severely limit.... geoff
Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio Reply by: Fredv Date:7/9/2008 5:40:07 PM Yes, the envelope. http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/voguy/AudioExample.jpg This classic 60s song had A LOT of good dynamics, but as you can see, it's been flattened out quite a bit. It's not as bad as some I have seen, where the peak is actually -.1dB down from full. Anyway, I'm just trying to make it sound better by eliminating as much of the heavy compression as possible.
Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio Reply by: jumbuk Date:7/10/2008 5:55:48 PM Why not go just back to the vinyl original and use Sony NR to clean up the noise?
Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio Reply by: Fredv Date:7/20/2008 7:53:20 AM The problem is trying to find the specific cut I need. The stereo version was only released on CD, and not on 45 or LP. :(

Subject:Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion

Posted by: Fredv

Date:7/7/2008 4:42:56 PM

Every so often I have to work with content that is from a CD where the producer has compressed the dickens out of it. I guess this is done to make it sound constant level on portable devices.

Case in point, I was ripping a CD of some Four Tops music. I have the original 45s and LPs, but I thought I would use a CD since it should be cleaner.

Imagine my surprise (shock) when I looked at the waveform and it was almost straight across. When I compare the 45 and the CD, there is almost NIL dynamic range.

The best way of describing the audio is imagine playing audio through a DBX 117 or 119 in the compression mode, set to 10:1, and then limiting the final product.

The best thing I have found so far to "temper" the over compression is DYNAMIC. I say temper because I know I can't restore them completely.

Has anyone had to deal with this, and can you share your settings and experiences? Anything better than Dynamic to eliminate some of the compressed songs?

Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:7/7/2008 5:17:22 PM

"Anything better than Dynamic to eliminate some of the compressed songs?"

- Just delete them - that will "eliminate" them nicely!

More seriously, I had to deal with this when mastering a CD I produced with a partner. One of the tracks was a live recording that had been produced by a radio station, and was compressed flat. We didn't have access to the original recording (it was probably straight from the PA with compression applied anyway).

I used the Waves C1 compressor with a downwards expander preset as a starting point. As you probably know, an expander is the opposite of a compressor. It did a pretty good job, bearing in mind that it is impossible to recover any dynamics that have been hard limited in the source audio.

Presumably you can configure the SF graphic dynamics to do the same thing.

Also, bear in mind that the expansion does have a few side-effects. It may alter the EQ balance (less bass, more highs) slightly, and it may reduce the perceived amount of reverb as well. If you can hear these effects, or any pumping, you have probably overdone it. Too much expansion will end up sounding like a noise gate. However, it's worth adding an extra stage of mastering EQ after the expansion to get the balance right again if it has changed (I use HarBal for this).

Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssion

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/7/2008 8:33:25 PM

You are, of course, referring to the envelope - not the waveform. That would tend to indicate the bass is highly compressed, but does not mean that the overall dynamic range, or dynamic range of all frequencies, is nil.

Yes, a disappointign trend that now seems to be the norm. Re-master = severely limit....

geoff

Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio

Reply by: Fredv

Date:7/9/2008 5:40:07 PM

Yes, the envelope.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g195/voguy/AudioExample.jpg

This classic 60s song had A LOT of good dynamics, but as you can see, it's been flattened out quite a bit. It's not as bad as some I have seen, where the peak is actually -.1dB down from full.

Anyway, I'm just trying to make it sound better by eliminating as much of the heavy compression as possible.

Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:7/10/2008 5:55:48 PM

Why not go just back to the vinyl original and use Sony NR to clean up the noise?

Subject:RE: Reversing the effects of OVER compresssio

Reply by: Fredv

Date:7/20/2008 7:53:20 AM

The problem is trying to find the specific cut I need. The stereo version was only released on CD, and not on 45 or LP. :(