Subject:Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Posted by: maggie3536

Date:2/6/2010 4:23:13 PM

I have it set at -3.00 db so it seems logical to me it would always come out the same volume, but sometimes it comes out too loud. What shall I do?

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/6/2010 4:58:28 PM

For music. set your normalisation level to 'Peak' and -0.5dB , which is a good figure. -3dB is unnecessarily *low*. Then to control the loudness, you turn down the volume control on your listening device.

If it is speech, then I set normalisation to -12dB peak, which seems to compare well with other p[roductions.

If is is music you have 'mixed' yourself, then it may be over-compressed - ease off on compression next time.

geoff

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: maggie3536

Date:2/6/2010 5:06:18 PM

Geoff, thank you for your quick reply! I will try your suggestion. One thing, though. I am doing samples to get my voice over career going. and the voice over sources I've been communicating with have told me that the industry standard for voice overs is -3.00 db. Is there no way I can

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: maggie3536

Date:2/6/2010 5:07:22 PM

sorry I cut off my own message -- is there no way I can use -3.00 db and get the right results?

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/6/2010 5:09:54 PM

If it is too loud at -3dB peak, then the average loudness is high. They are two entirely different things.

If you have several audio clips in the same project, and some of them sound too loud, turn them down and don't worry about peak normalization. You can compress (increase the average volume) in Sound Forge, but you can't do the opposite.

RE your last post: -3dBVU broadcast level has absolutely nothing to do with dBFS in Sound Forge. Apples and oranges. There is a steep learning curve, and covering the basics couldn't even be attempted here.

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: maggie3536

Date:2/6/2010 6:02:39 PM

musicvid, thanks for your reply. I am such a newbie to this and I have to learn quickly as possible. May I ask you to clarify a few things?

What do you mean by average loudness?

What do you mean by peak normalization?

Are you saying I can't use -3db in Sound Forge?

I hope you don't mind answering these questions. I need to learn!

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/6/2010 6:28:40 PM

Average (RMS) loudness is a complicated regression of all the program information. For example, it is the reason TV commercials sound louder than the program, even though the peak volumes are the same (as required by law).

Peak volume is merely the loudest point in a program, and has very little to do with perceived volume.

There are half a dozen dB reference scales that I can think of, with variations on many. They are all different and have little relationship to each other.So I suggest you forget about what you were told for now. Just don't clip your recordings and don't exceed 0dBFS when rendering. That's for starters.

So, set the volume so it sounds right to you, and get your self a good book on audio production. You are not going to learn anything quickly except by doing and making lots of mistakes and doing some more. Good luck to you.

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: maggie3536

Date:2/6/2010 7:52:52 PM

Musicvid, also I haven't to my knowledge been compressing. I try to look these terms up in Help but they don't show up. Where is the compression function in Sound Forge and why would I use it?

Thanks in advance! :-)

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:2/7/2010 12:53:57 AM

Not sure about the Studio version, but it should be under Effects / Compressor maybe.

Compression reduces the dynamic range of the material, so that the difference between the loudest parts and the quietest parts is made smaller. The problem with simple normalization is that it only brings the very loudest peak up to the point you set. Imagine if you recorded someone whispering at -35dB but there was a brief sneeze at -8dB. Normalize this to -3dB and the sneeze is brought up 5dB. This leaves the whispering at -30dB which is very quiet. On the other hand, say you recorded an organ performance that varied from -15 to -5. Normalizing this would bring to -13 to -3. Even though both recordings now peak at -3 the organ will sound about 17dB louder than the voice.

Compression can reduce the difference by finding the loud peaks and gently reducing them so that the difference between that sneeze and the whispering is much less. You might use it to reduce the sneeze down to -34, which would then allow the voice to come up to -4 instead of -30. This is an extreme case of course, but the same logic applies if you have a recording where some parts of the speech are emphasized more loudly than others. Compression lets you even out the volume fluctuations so that the end result is more consistent with other recordings.

Don't add too much compression though. You can compress your recording to a flat line if you add too much and then your voice will be a pure monotone and very tiring to listen too. Some volume fluctuation is natural and adds interest, variation, and character to the recording.

Subject:RE: Normalization sometime makes it too loud

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/8/2010 4:08:44 PM

You really need to find out exactly what the full technical requirements are for the file you are producing. Is it -3dB peak ?

How are you deciding that it is 'too loud' ? You can normailise to any figure you like in Sound Forge. If you normalise to the spec figure and it is 'too loud', you turn down the replay volume level.

If it is 'too loud' in comparison to other filles that look the same wrt peak level ( with the same replay level setting), then there is some compression happening somwhere, or something in your vocal technique.

I suggest you really do need some learning regarding sound recording - maybe starting with some magasine articles.

Try searching for 'normalisation' and (vocal?) 'compression' on www.soundonsound.com.

You may need to subscribe to see the full articles (well worth it !).

geoff