Subject:MPEG Plugin?

Posted by: KenJ62

Date:4/25/2010 5:16:37 PM

I just started working with Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro Pack which contains Sound Forge Audio Studio 9.0d. The inclusion of Sound Forge Studio was one of the enticements for buying the Platinum Pro Pack. So, I started an HDV project and went to edit the sound track in Sound Forge and it pops up a message saying I need to buy an MPEG Plug-in!

Really?

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:4/25/2010 8:34:48 PM

You sure it says "Buy", not "Register" ?

geoff

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: KenJ62

Date:4/25/2010 11:02:25 PM

The last line in the pop up window says, " To purchase this plug-in and receive an authorization code, click Buy Now below."

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:4/26/2010 10:20:59 AM

You can always render out the audio and open it in SF Audio Studio, then bring it back into your Vegas project. Nothing says you have to open the mpeg video in Sound Forge in order to work on the audio.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/audiostudio/features
Read clear at the bottom of the page:
"* MPEG-1&2 support requires the purchase of the MainConcept MPEG plug-in from Sony Creative Software. Note: Product requires online registration."

That is the same for all versions of Audio Studio, not just the one that came with VMS Platinum 9.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:4/26/2010 8:16:10 PM

Ah, OK, not MP3.

You probably need to purchase it then. Did it suggest somewhere that SFAS could edit/encode MPEG 1 or 2 without the additional purchase?

geoff

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: KenJ62

Date:4/27/2010 8:16:12 AM

Thanks for pointing that out. One of reasons to pay extra for the Platinum Pro Pack is to get Sound Forge Studio. It works fine with DV video. I am surprised that Sony Creative would 'nickle and dime' their customers since most people want to edit MPEG now days.

Since the Studio Version DVD Architect doesn't do high definition I bought the newly released Nero 10 which authors Blu-ray and hi-def AVCHD on conventional media. Nero used to charge extra for the hi-def plug-in but that is all included now. Only special audio plug-ins are extra charge.

So, are there any other extra cost surprises in the Studio software?

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:4/27/2010 9:23:28 AM

I own Vegas Pro 8 and Sound Forge Pro 7, and I get the same message if I try to open MPEG video. It doesn't seem abnormal that Sony should want to charge for a license that they have to pay for MPEG video support in an audio application.

I've never needed to open MPEG video in Sound Forge before. I render the audio and open that in Sound Forge. Takes a couple of minutes.

Sorry you are feeling picked on, but part of my job is fixing audio tracks from video files. You seem to want destructive editing of your video files when most people do not.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: jbolley

Date:4/27/2010 11:41:29 AM

Musicvid,
What are you saying? You own Vegas Pro 8 and can't open a MPEG file?
Weird.

Jesse

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:4/27/2010 11:52:50 AM

Jesse,
Please read my response in the context of this thread.
Of course I can open MPEG video in Vegas. The license is part of the purchase.

If I open MPEG video from the Vegas timeline in Sound Forge, I get the popup (just like the OP) saying I need to purchase the plugin. This is expected, because the license is not part of the Sound Forge purchase. Sorry that didn't seem clear.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: KenJ62

Date:4/27/2010 12:51:46 PM

musicvid said, "I've never needed to open MPEG video in Sound Forge before. I render the audio and open that in Sound Forge. Takes a couple of minutes.

Sorry you are feeling picked on, but part of my job is fixing audio tracks from video files. You seem to want destructive editing of your video files when most people do not."
-------------------
I'm new to Sony software but have used Adobe Elements for five years doing community access TV. I was surprised I didn't get full, mainstream audio codec support in a purchased product.

I don't understand the "destructive editing" comment. I figured Sound Forge would give greater features and flexibility than the Vegas timeline.

As far as "being picked on" I find it easy to misunderstand where people are coming from on line. Perhaps you have that problem too.

Sony wants $29.95 for the MainConcept MPEG-1 & 2 codecs which are already residing on my system! Seems a little steep to me, especially for software I already own.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:4/27/2010 2:02:44 PM

I'll make a final comment and then check out of this discussion, because we see this from entirely different viewpoints.

Sound Forge is an audio acquisition and editing program.
Vegas is a multitrack video and Digital Audio Workstation.
Two different applications, two different purposes.
If you want to work on your audio, you can use either. I prefer to do much of my audio work in Sound Forge.
That doesn't mean I want to drag my video files into Sound Forge and work on the audio track and then render them. That is 100% pointless and a complete waste of time.
I have a separate (identical) audio track to work on so I don't alter the original audio track.

Video is video. Audio is audio. Once again, Sony pays to license each copy of the MPEG video codecs. So I don't want to pay more for a video codec that I and most people don't need in an audio editor. If I needed such capability, I would pay the $30 rather than want it built into the price of the product.

In more than a decade of working with the professional versions of these products, I have yet to see a need to open and render MPEG video in Sound Forge, when I already have that capability in Vegas. Just so there is no mistake, that is where I am coming from.

What I don't understand is why you need that capability, when what you say you want to do is work on the audio in Sound Forge. That is the easy part, and it doesn't cost you a cent extra.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: KenJ62

Date:4/27/2010 3:11:18 PM

Yes, different viewpoints or perhaps a misunderstanding of the workflow in Sony products.

My understanding of these products is that Sound Forge was an enhanced audio editing application that could go well beyond the capabilities of editing on the VMS timeline. Elements 2 was like that. I would sometimes render out the sound track as a wav file, enhance it and import it back to replace the original. That was what I was expecting Sound Forge Studio to do. If that's not what it's for then please clue me in. Why was SFS offered in the Platinum Pro Pack anyway? Is it superfluous in your view? No attitude here - I really don't know and want your advice. Thanks.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/27/2010 5:52:10 PM

If you "Open copy" in Sound Forge rather than "Open", Vegas will create a .wav file with the audio from the selected section of the timeline. This can be opened in Sound Forge without any restrictions. You'll edit this copy. When you are done, Vegas adds the edited .wav file to the timeline as a "take", allowing you to use the new version in place of the old.

There are some really nice things about this workflow. It's *WAY* faster than opening the original audio&video file in Sound Forge, it's *WAY* faster to save, and if you decide later on you've made a mistake then the original version is still there in the video file waiting for you to make use of it again. It also avoids saving mpeg-compressed audio back into a compressed format again, avoiding an extra level of quality loss.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:4/27/2010 6:19:58 PM

I would sometimes render out the sound track as a wav file, enhance it and import it back to replace the original. That was what I was expecting Sound Forge Studio to do.
That is exactly what Sound Forge does. The problem in your workflow is that you are trying to open the MPEG video file in Sound Forge, which as Kelly confirmed, is unnecessary and a waste of time, as well as the quality loss from rendering and committing the changes to the original file, which is called destructive editing.

1. Render as WAV in Vegas
2. Open WAV in Sound Forge
3. Edit WAV in Sound Forge
4. Save WAV and open in Vegas
5. That's all it takes. Nothing lost, nothing changed in your original file!

If you "Open copy" in Sound Forge rather than "Open", Vegas will create a .wav file with the audio from the selected section of the timeline.
Kelly, unfortunately this is not the case with mpeg-video files with Layer 2 (MP2) audio such as in the OP's HDV files and others. It throws an exception in Vegas Pro 8, and thus I assume the same in VMS 9 since they use essentially the same engine. Therefore it is necessary to render as WAV first, and is the reason I suggested doing so.

As for the differences between Vegas as a DAW and Sound Forge as an editor, I already stated that I enjoy doing much of my effects and fine editing in Sound Forge and import it back into Vegas as a new take. However, the audio envelopes in Vegas are something I couldn't live without and I use for riding gains 90% of the time. The track compressor, EQ and Delay in Vegas are always part of my basic mix. Many people don't realized that Vegas started as a DAW, and that legacy makes it arguably the most audio-centric video editor on the market.

You will find much more discussion on the combined use of the two programs by searching the forums. Together, they are unbeatable, and they share many of the same plugins. But in order to use them effectively, you will need to first abandon almost everything you have learned or assumed from using Adobe Elements. Darkness to Daylight.

Subject:RE: MPEG Plugin?

Reply by: KenJ62

Date:4/27/2010 8:04:20 PM

Oooooooooh, open a copy! <light suddenly illuminates the room>

As Rosanna-Danna said, "Never mind." <grin>

From Darkness into Daylight, huh? Wow!

For my first serious project in VMS9P I am editing a rare on-location interview using 3 Canon HV20s. I am having a blast. Adobe Elements 2 had many professional features and I learned to be very productive but this editor is a joy to use and takes things to a whole new level.

Thanks for guidance!