Editing H.264 frustrations... any tips?

chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 10:29 AM
Hi all-
I am trying to edit a big project with many clips, hundreds of which are synched with Pluraleyes (multicam).

Everything is H.264 from a canon 5-D. 25 fps @ 1920 x 1080.

I have an Intel Hex Core Processor with 24 GB RAM (brand new), 16 TB of Hard disk in a RAID 0 with 500 mbps/transfer, a Nvideo GeForce brand new video card.

I am experiencing huge preview lag and it is hard to work fast and efficiently.

I would like to batch convert these all to my blackmagic .AVI, but I don't have a good encoder. Can anyone recommend one?

OR

Can Vegas work with proxies yet?

OR

Any other tips?

Comments

Mindmatter wrote on 10/13/2011, 10:42 AM
Hi chap

files direct from the Canon are almost impossible to edit on a NLE. You need to use an intermediate codec, like the free lossless avid DnxHD codec, or something like MXF. You can download the avid, istall it, then transcode inside Vegas ( under the Quicktime template) or use mpg streamclip, a free transcoding app. there's clips on youtube about how to do it.
Good luck.

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musicvid10 wrote on 10/13/2011, 10:43 AM
Vegas has always worked with proxies.
Post your Vegas version and Quicktime version, which is essential information.
Cineform and DNxHD are two good intermediates that are now both free.
5D/7D footage has been especially troublesome with NLE applications, not just Vegas.
RAID 0 is generally unnecessary for video editing, and some people report better performance with jabod.

Timeline performance with DSLR h264 has improved with each successive release, and trialing Vegas Pro 11 once it is released is recommended.
chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 11:32 AM
Vegas Version is 10.0e (build 738) 64 bit,

Quicktime version is 7.7 (1680.34)

I will definitely upgrade to 11 immediately cause of the GPU acceleration.

How do I setup the proxy use? Or do I have to render each event individually?

Thanks
Matt
musicvid10 wrote on 10/13/2011, 11:58 AM
In the Vegas Help section, type in "proxy." It will come up with several useful topics.
rraud wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:00 PM
"How do I setup the proxy use? Or do I have to render each event individually?"
Without going into details "Proxy Stream" (free) works great for me. It can also batch render your proxy files.
The proxy file format you choose may be subjective, based on quality, motion and how much 'juice' your CPU has.
chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:31 PM
While "somewhat' useful, the help topic only suggests

Capture or import your high-definition clips.

Start a new project.

Add your high-definition clips to the timeline.

Render your clips to an appropriate proxy format.

-----------
SO, where do I click to render them as proxies?

Render As is only the full render version. I don't want to make ONE long tile of AVI in order to add it to the timeline, do i?

Sorry for my ignorance.

chap
chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:32 PM
ALSO, proxy stream only seems to be for Vegas 9. Does the v9 version work in v10?
Former user wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:33 PM
Somebody, and I am sorry I have forgotten who, wrote a Script to create proxies and allow you to switch between them within your project. Really good free script.

Do a search for Proxies and you should find it.

Dave T2
Robert Johnston wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:41 PM
Vegasaur can automatically and quickly swap between the proxy and original files in Vegas if the basenames of the matching pairs are the same. I've only experimented with it, but here it is: www.vegasuar.com (not free).


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amendegw wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:41 PM
"Somebody, and I am sorry I have forgotten who, wrote a Script to create proxies and allow you to switch between them within your project. Really good free script."That would be "rosebud" and "Proxy Stream". Check this thread out: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=627409

btw, I discovered a different solution to the security problems listed in this thread. Create a "Vegas Script Menu" folder in your "Documents" folder and put the script there.

...Jerry

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chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 12:43 PM
I am just staring at every single button in vegas and I don't see anything about proxies anywhere. I click Render As and there isn't a single option for proxies.

Sorry to be a pain, but every person has said "render them to proxies". even help says "render timeline to proxy in the appropriate format", but there is no instruction on how to do that?

Do I have to render each file?

chap
chap wrote on 10/13/2011, 1:21 PM
HUH, no one has answered about proxy stream.

This rather unelegant solution may work though:



I think Vegas should consider what after effects does, and allow you to just make proxies for everything, baked right into the software. In the meantime this proxy solution should work.

chap
Former user wrote on 10/13/2011, 1:25 PM
You have to download the Proxy Stream Script and install it.

Then it is an option under Vegas Scripts.

Works great.

Dave T2
Laurence wrote on 10/13/2011, 3:24 PM
>You need to use an intermediate codec, like the free lossless avid DnxHD codec, or something like MXF.

XDCam .mp4 (the same mpeg2 data as is in HDV or .mxf, but in a .mp4 wrapper) is my current favorite. Free, great looking, small files that don't take up much space or challenge an external USB 2 or 3 drive, incredibly CPU friendly, smart-renders, and works as a source for the excellent Handbrake.
AlenK wrote on 10/14/2011, 12:22 PM
> XDCam .mp4 (the same mpeg2 data as is in HDV or .mxf, but in a .mp4 wrapper) is my current favorite. Free,...

Isn't this just 35Mbps? Is that really enough? In any case, I'd like to give it a try myself. Previews of 1080p30 clips from a T3i (600D) that I am editing right now are dog slow on my PC. What do I need to download and how do I convert my source files to that format?
Cliff Etzel wrote on 10/14/2011, 12:57 PM
I wrote a detailed blog posting on using AVID DNxHD intermediates and my workflow process - hope this answers your questions

Cliff Etzel
Photographer | Multimedia Journalist
Website | Blog
john_dennis wrote on 10/14/2011, 2:49 PM
@ AlenK

"Isn't this just 35Mbps?

Yes, or less.

"Is that really enough?

It all depends...

"I'd like to give it a try myself. "

With your T3i source on the timeline

Render As: XDCAM EX (*.MP4)

Template: HQ 1920x1080-60i, 35 Mbps VBR

On the Custom tab:

Field Order: Progressive

Save the template by a new name.

This assumes you are using 30p source.


Laurence wrote on 10/14/2011, 3:09 PM
I don't know how Sony managed to get 35 Mbps (or 25 Mbps in the case of 1440 x 1080i/p) to look so good. It really does look good though.

There are a few things that really help in this work flow though:

1/ If you need heavy color correction, do it when you convert the formats. In a heavily compressed format like mpeg 2, a lot of the data compression comes from leaving out the shadings between noticable color differences. If you convert then try to stretch the colors, you will find that the subtle differences in the shadows that you need to expand are gone. Actually, they were probably already gone after the camera's compression, but it's even worse now. By color correcting to either your final color or something very close to it, have already expanded the colors out and this is much less of an issue.

2/ Many cameras have customizable color profile type settings. My Z7 HDV camera does and so does my Nikon D5100 SLR. If you experiment a bit with the settings such as saturation, sharpening, shadow detail etc, you can get a color that looks very good smart-rendered into a final master. If you do this, then do a single conversion into XD-Cam mp4 (mpeg2 in an mpeg4 container), then since you aren't color correcting, you can smart-render this into a final edit master in the same XD-Cam mp4 master. This keeps your generations down to a single generation loss on your final master (which looks very good and is relatively small). This can be used to make a Youtube/Vimeo uploadable file with Handbrake or burned directly to Blu-ray using an authoring program like Adobe Encore. Very cool.

john_dennis wrote on 10/14/2011, 3:28 PM
I love the smell of "No Recompression Required" in the morning.
Andy_L wrote on 10/14/2011, 10:19 PM
since no one else mentioned it, have you tried project properties set to 8 instead of 32-bit?