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Subject:recording audio and ACID
Posted by: fox
Date:1/8/2002 5:16:22 AM
Hi again, How can I record audio and have the best of ACID with all the loops and sounds and have the best with recording audio like on a multitrack such as vocals with reverb delay etc or guitar. Is there a way of putting them together? Regards, Jason |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:1/8/2002 12:32:56 PM
This is the Big Lie from SF which claims "unlimited audio tracks" in promotional material yet admits "Acid is not intended as a multitrack audio application" here in semi-private (read: AFTER the sale). Basically Acid can't function as a multitrack tape recorder, unlike most of its competitors. There's a few things you can try: 1) If you have a great rig and tons of RAM, you can get a few audio tracks working. But try to break them up into shorter "one-shots" as Acid doesn't like full-length audio tracks. 2) If you need a bunch of tracks, you can try midi-sync to some true multitrack recorder like Vegas Audio via the routers that come with 3.0. But then you lose all your rendering capabilities and from what I've read in these pages, it's a nightmare. 3) Get an Acid-compatible integrated app. Cakewalk's Sonar is good, Plasma is cheap but it can't audition loops or import MP3's (major bummer)--there's a few others. These apps will allow you to integrate true multitrack recording with loops, plus a lot more. 4) Wait for 4.0. If it isn't integrated, it's over for Acid anyway. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/8/2002 1:05:39 PM
Your best bet could be to use ACID to make your music bed with and render it to something like WAV. Then insert the file into something like Vegas Audio or Vegas Video for multitrack heaven. Best of both worlds. :) Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:1/8/2002 1:25:14 PM
I see this kluge mentioned time and again to get around Acid's glaring audio shortcomings--but why would a composer want to have to premix critical tracks like that? That's the kind of fake-o-matic stuff we had to do back in the Beatles era with 4-track machines. Hopefully, technology has advanced to the point where we don't have to premix anymore! It pretty much guarantees your final product will suffer--in some cases fatally so. If you don't absolutely HAVE to premix...DON'T! You need maximum creative flexibility in your final mix--if you're not George Martin, keep your tracks separate. You may want to subgroup in your final mix--but that's the point you should decide what you can combine and what not. Just try EQ'ing a kick and adding space to the snare when the bass, keys and guitar are premixed in there together. Amateurs premix, pros don't. That's why pro studios still have gigantic mixing consoles with 64 sliders. They use 'em! Today, it's the same in Pro Tools or whatever--many sliders, many choices = best product. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/8/2002 5:23:06 PM
*snore* Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/9/2002 12:19:33 PM
What glaring inadequacies? -------------------------------------- http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/NewShowProduct.asp?PID=462 ACID™ PRO 3.0 is an award-winning loop-based music creation tool that allows you to produce original, royalty-free music. Use ACID to create songs, remix tracks, develop music beds, score videos, and develop music for Web sites and Flash™ animations. This revolutionary tool is intuitive and easy to use. Work with hundreds of loops in multiple genres. Use unlimited tracks of audio. Import complete songs, even MP3s. And when you're done, publish your music to ACIDplanet.comSM. It even has built-in support for MIDI, video scoring, and can save to a number of audio and video file formats, including WAV, WMA, RM, AVI, and MP3. -------------------------------------- It's a loop based music creation tool. that's what it's for. I don't see Sonic Foundry advertising it as a studio sound recording and editing program. That's what Vegas is for. Yes, ACID does have a record button. But that's there so that people can record a sound sample to create a new loop. No where in SF's literature do they claim that you can do multitrack recordings with ACID. If you want to create music, use ACID. If you want to record and edit music, use Vegas. If you want to do both, use both. If you only want one, then Sonic Foundry doesn't make you pay for both. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:1/9/2002 2:07:35 PM
Guess Iacobus finds Acid users in need boring. Figures. "USE UNLIMITED AUDIO TRACKS". It's a total lie. Not only that, it's intentionally misleading--it directly suggests that Acid can be used as a multitrack audio app. Of course, the Clintonesque SF word-parsers backed by Johnny Cochrane will come and whine, Oh, we didn't mean you could RECORD unlimited audio. And we didn't mean you could LISTEN to unlimited audio. We only meant you could USE unlimited audio tracks. You know, any way you want. You can line your bird cage with 'em for all we care. Just don't try to use them in Acid." It's a fraud perpetrated on innocent users who buy the app assuming it's an integrated product. It is not. This forum is a testament to the creative damage and wreckage of valuable time and resources caused by SF's intentionally misleading advertising. Some us try to help straighten out that mess in here. Others are...just...plain...bored by it all. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/9/2002 4:37:28 PM
What would you have preferred them to say? Maybe "Use Unlimited Loop Tracks"? Loops are audio and you can use as many tracks for them as you wish. I can't see anything in Sonic Foundry's advertising or write-ups that even hints at using ACID for multitrack recording. There is mention that you can record music or vocals directy into a project, and this is quite obviously true. Under Other Features it says "Turn your PC into a complete multitrack recording sudio with Vegas Audio LE", which is included for free when you purchase ACID. But no where do they say that mulititrack recording can be done with ACID itself. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:1/9/2002 6:38:45 PM
All depends on the meaning of the word "is", eh chien? How absurd! Unlimited audio tracks by any standardized meaning of the phrase in the industry (and used correctly by other apps which DO support this function)refers to multiple song-length audio tracks, which Acid does NOT support. A lie is a lie, no matter how you want to paint spin over it. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: fox
Date:1/9/2002 11:21:02 PM
Hi guys! Well there is some heated discussions here lol! Can I import the individual tracks that I create with Acid into sonic foundry mulititrack? If so my idea would be that I could create the loop music on Acid then when I'm happy export each track from Acid into sonic foundry multitrack. This would give the maximum mixing capabilities. Regards, Fox |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/10/2002 12:32:29 AM
Yes. I've heard there's some semi-automatic way to do this. I don't recall it off the top of my head but i'll look into it tomorrow when i'm awake again. If nothing else, you can solo each track and render it to a .wav file. Simply load each of these into a track in Vegas and they'll be in sync. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:1/10/2002 12:39:44 AM
I guess it's just too tough for you to read a couple of paragraphs of product description. Sorry about that. It's certainly something i would do before spending $349.99. I'll summarize what they say for you: ACID is for music creation. Vegas is for music recording/editing. I really can't see anything misleading in that. |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/10/2002 9:10:56 PM
I only help people looking for a (hopefully) realistic answer to their apparent problem with ACID. I don't give answers that advise them to steer them away from the product they've bought and seriously want to work with and learn. That is unrealistic and somewhat rude. That's like me going into a Cakewalk forum and telling people to buy ACID instead of Sonar. It just ain't good manners, mensch. Besides that, there are other ways of working with a project with just both Vegas Audio/Video and ACID Pro. I only stated a very basic way in my first response. You could, for example, export the loops in the project in ACID Pro separately, however raw you want them to be, and import those tracks into Vegas, key and tempo information and all. Still another way is to render each track as a separate file when rendering the project. Then you can do whatever you want with the resulting separate files, even bring them into another app other than Vegas. I'm sure you already knew that though. And that's not flexible? Granted, these features are available in ACID Pro only, but Sonic Foundry sure as hell didn't hide that fact. And truthfully, when I first bought ACID Pro 2 (in what seems way back), I knew it wasn't a true multitrack app. I already knew that based on research. Big clue: "Loop based music creation tool". That and the knowledge of Vegas existing. And let's not forget the fact that people who don't own ACID also have the same problems with audio breakup/skipping using Cubase, Logic, Sonar, et al. It's not an isolated problem. "genei" made a good point here earlier in the forum concerning configuration of a system as a DAW. It does, indeed, make a big difference. *sigh* Awright, I'm done now...anyone else want the soapbox? :) Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: recording audio and ACID
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/10/2002 9:20:27 PM
You can, indeed, export or render your tracks in a project separately. You can either export loops based on tempo and key changes within the project (using File>Export Loops on the menu bar) or by saving the project as separate tracks (using the "save each track as a separate file" option under File>Render As on the menu bar). Note that these features are in ACID Pro only. Otherwise, you can use the technique Chienworks suggested. HTH, Iacobus |