Please help me understand youtube rendering :)

itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/5/2016, 11:12 AM
Hi guys,

I outlined my issue with pictures and links over in this MAGIX thread 5 minutes ago.
Thank god for that too since I see i can't even post pictures in this forum wow...

http://www.magix.info/uk/help-with-youtube-video-render.forum.1174580.html?msg=topicchanged

My issue is with how youtube renders my videos.
I tried Computer RGB, Studio RGB, but it just doesn't quite look right.

in fact Computer RGB on youtube looks best in my book, but i though it's best practice to convert to Studio!?!?

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 8/5/2016, 11:21 AM
Couple of things:

To post links and images here, use the markup language in the post at the top of each forum.

Impossible to tell anything from those screenshots, we would need ACTUAL source and render samples (not Youtube! We already know what it does to video . . .) to see what is going on.

But I think I get it about your issue. Turn OFF the "Dynamic Contrast" or whatever it's called in your video card or player settings, and try again.
Check your workflow from beginning to end, to be sure the Studio RGB filter was not applied twice.
Keep in mind that the Vegas preview will always display flatter than in a player. There is a reason for that.

Download the Vegas Pro 13 trial so you can see exactly what is going on in the video scopes.



itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/5/2016, 11:37 AM
ooh my apologies, had no idea about the markup language.

I'll check out the Dynamic Contrast settings ASAP, i have R9 280 radeon.
That might also explain why whenever i try to manually calibrate monitor brightness, i get a sudden brightness jump after a certain number.

I'll also upload My Computer RGB render, Studio RGB render, and original video sample.
Will reply as soon as it's uploaded.

I really don't wanna get too in depth with video scopes and whatnot, im willing to settle for quick and dirty solution, since i only make game videos :)

itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/5/2016, 12:01 PM
Don't see any Dynamic Contrast but there is "Color Temperature" setting that could be set to automatic, but it's on manual 6500k.

I used windows calibrate twice to fine tune display, and now i notice when youtube video is fullscreen it becomes too foggy, but when windowed its fine...

My display is acting weird though, If i switch around between my USER preset, and to standard back and forth I get inconsistent results.
Basically on USER preset the brightness is gone, then i set to standard and I see brightness, then i set back to USER and i STILL SEE IT, but then it POPS back down to good brightness.

Maybe there's a dynamic contrast setting i dont see somewhere. I have it disabled in display, maybe its bugged or something.

But i don't really care as much about how it looks on my monitor, as long as its right for everyone else.


I definitely don't set it to Studio RGB twice.
I record in Action! using 0-255 setting.
Import in Movie Studio Platinum.
Set Video FX on output to "Computer RGB to Studio RGB"
RENDER


EDIT:
ENABLING HARDWARE ACCELERATION IN GOOGLE CHROME REMOVED THE FOGGY ISSUE. YOUTUBE LOOKS A LOT BETTER NOW.

However when compared to original the colors are still a bit less colorful. Maybe it has to do with shrinking the resolution when editing my video. I'm much happier now though.


POSTED SAMPLES HERE: original recording, computer rgb render, studio rgb render
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wthaxb5f2nvhqx7/AABLUdiSeieE1YoAtY3HlXGda?dl=0

In case anyone wants to check it out.


musicvid10 wrote on 8/6/2016, 10:20 AM
Uploading 5 GB of samples is not helpful. 10 seconds of each would have been plenty.
I was able to determine from your original, however, that the levels are already correct, so no levels filter is necessary for subsequent encodes. The whites are a bit conservative, and the clip a bit flat overall.

Being YUV source, the Vegas preview will look too flat, and the player result will be accurate.

Your screen calibration is your own responsibility, no one can do that over the forum. Don't use "user" anything or any enhancements! Native hardware defaults only.



itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/6/2016, 11:17 AM
good point on the sample size sorry. I also set monitor settings to STANDARD, and it looks proper. Enabling hardware acceleration in google chrome fixed the inconsistent youtube colors.

Actually I did some more testing and i discovered something really weird.

First off i guarantee my original recording was in 0-255 space, you can set that option in the recording software i used, Action!. Recording in 16-235 resulted in a much darker video.


Ok so i downloaded a reference color bars pic, 255,235,16,0 and inserted it into my movie studio project.
I then rendered 2 videos using MainConcept AVC,
1 with "computer RGB to studio RGB" and 1 with no changes.

I then viewed both videos in VLC player, Windows media player, and youtube.

The video WITH levels, i could see all 4 distinct colors in the reference pic, BUT my GAMEPLAY footage was very washed out, looking EXACTLY how it looked in the Movie Studio preview window after applying levels.
My LOGO however looked good, even though it was also washed out in the preview window after applying levels.

IN FACT, the video clips ALREADY look a tiny bit more washed out in the preview window before even applying levels.

Its like the rendering process is failing to actually render the FOOTAGE into the proper RGB space, but it rendered the images fine at the beginning of the video...


As for the NO LEVELS APPLIED videos, the reference colors were crushed, 0 same as 16, 235 same as 255, BUT the footage was for all intents and purposes PERFECT.



So my conclusion is that that the renderer does not properly create the video part to account for the level changes, but it DOES do it correctly for IMAGES.

WTF!?!?!?
am i not allowed to have images and video on the same track? cause that's my suspicion and im gonna test it out now.
edit: nope makes no difference.

so how the hell do i tell the renderer to convert video footage properly, or im gonna have to apply levels individually to images and ignore my captures footage.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/6/2016, 11:28 AM
The "ORIGINAL" you uploaded is in mp4 format, at apparently correct YUV levels, which are 16-235.
If that's not an original capture, but a second-generation encoding, there is nothing I can do to help you, sorry.

However, if what you labeled as "ORIGINAL" is indeed the raw capture format, then something is wrong in your hardware or capture worfkow, because the screen should always display 0-255.

Let us know what you find out, and best of luck!







.
itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/6/2016, 11:51 AM
now im mega confused...

I recorded a piece of footage in 16-235.
In movie studio i rendered without applying levels and the final video is VERY DARK. If i render using "comp rgb to studio rgb" the final render looks good....
this makes absolutely no sense.

Hey im gonna upload 2 small pieces of raw footage, one with 0-255 and one with 16-235.
Can you tell me if it's actually correct? or maybe the software Action! is a bunch of horseshit.
itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/6/2016, 11:59 AM
Okay i uploaded a few seconds of each type of footage.
0-255 and 16-235.

Can you tell me if they're correct?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wthaxb5f2nvhqx7/AABLUdiSeieE1YoAtY3HlXGda?dl=0

also your histogram looks more like 0-235 with RED going to 255... or am i reading it wrong.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/6/2016, 1:32 PM
Just download the trial of Vegas Pro 13 and use the scopes.

Use the scopes and your eyes to make the choices. Yes the histogram of your "original" show conservative 16-235 luminance and pretty sloppy chroma. Let us know how it turns out.



itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/6/2016, 1:44 PM
dam was hoping ud save me the trouble :p
musicvid10 wrote on 8/6/2016, 2:00 PM
dam my house is under contract, closing is next week, and my tutor rate is $50/hr. Otherwise I'd be happy to help, kiddo.

itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/6/2016, 2:49 PM
dam son step up your life game. ;P

but yea i installed it and results are weird:
16-235
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xsrcxerot6de3d/Capture.PNG?dl=0
0-255
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0clxn1a5oq81q0w/255.PNG?dl=0

makes no fuckin sense to me.

What im gonna do is, from now on im gonna record in 0-255 or whatver the program decides that is.

Then in my movie studio I will only apply sony levels to images, and will leave the footage alone. You said it's already studio RGB anyway.

This way i get the closest video quality to original capture.
itsallgoodgames wrote on 8/7/2016, 9:30 PM
Thanks for helping out, musicvid10.

Your report that the supposed 0-255 video was actually already in the right format cleared up some confusion.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/8/2016, 10:33 AM
Sometimes you just need scopes.